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40 year study finds ghosts don't exist
#31
(08-27-2010, 07:32 AM)scarygirl67 Wrote: And finding some of those explanations can save a person's life, especially in the case of leaking chemicals or gasses.

You know me...I haven't let go of the belief that spirits communicate with the living. But ignoring that a good majority of cases can be explained in these ways brought up in the article is not going to get us any closer to the truth.

I have seen people get upset when other explanations are suggested. However, these are very real explanations for very real problems...some of which are more dangerous than any ghost ever could be.

"Barney and Andy were lawmen...the greatest you ever did see..."....(sorry, couldn't resist...and I LOVED that episode with the haunted house!!)
scarygirl67,

I really like the reference to the Andy Griffith show. I remember that episode as one I really enjoyed. They did a good job. As a kid, I was glued to the TV during that episode. It is a real classic.

As far as real ghosts are concerned, I don't believe in ghosts, of deceased people..., even if they appear and carry on a conversation about one's family..., intelligently. I do believe that the spirits of deceased people exist, just not here. The dead don't come back. But, I firmly believe that some kind of lifeform dwells among us.

There was a story posted here, or maybe at another site? I'm not sure where. However, the story made quite an impression on me.

A young girl, about 9 years old, had just lost her grandmother. She was visiting her grandmother's house with other family members, when an apparition of her grandmother appeared, claiming to be her grandmother. The little girl yelled at this "ghost" and said that "she" was not her grandma and to leave the house and return to where it came from.

The "ghost" became grotesque and menacing, making threats, but ultimately backed down, and disappeared, along with some black vortex that was directly behind the "ghost." Not my story, but one worth mentioning. I'm sure that my account of this story isn't perfect.

I do pretty much believe that the earth was occupied by fallen angels before man was even created. Let's not forget Lucifer. Many people believe that Lucifer is real. I do too. Some people think that Lucifer is good, and God is evil. I don't believe that.

I've even read messages from people who believe that there is an after life, but there is no God. Go figure.

I believe there is a supreme creator.., our creator. His son, Jesus, spent a short life among men. Jesus didn't want to be crucified, but He surrendured His will to God the Father, and carried out the will of Our Father in Heaven. This is key to the plan of redeeming mankind and bringing man back into a "direct contact" relationship with God.

Just putting a few things on the table for anyone interested. I'm not trying to judge or convert anyone. That comes from the office and administration, and convincing, by the Holy Spirit. I play a very small part in that process. Blueud

FYI,
jeff
Forgiveness is next to deity.
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#32
Trying to stay on topic!!! What if you and a group of people all see the same thing at the same time? What if there is no logical explanation for what has been seen by these people?

Also, i will say, Sweeny, If i saw big foot face to face, yes, i would believe in it. Unless there may be a person that just happens to have a costume on!!!!!!

There are all sorts of studies that go on for many years. The sad part about it is when they come up years later and say it was all a scam. How do we really know that this study is true? Do we have proof of this? I am just looking at the other side of the coin here.

Do we automatically believe everything we read? I am very skeptical of what i read and what i watch on tv, as many things can be blown out of proportion.

Im sure there must be a 40 year old study out there somewhere that says, ghosts do exsist.

Just looking at both sides, not trying to start a debate here. Common sence is kicking in, thats all...... we cant beleive everything we read.....Blueud
Pride and Fear always distort the truth into either a false sense of security or a lack of confidence and diminished self-worth.

Angel WIngs



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#33
I agree with so much of what you have said, K2M.
Yes, studies go on. At the time they do seem genuine and authentic - but the findings these studies come up with are always reviewed and questioned over time.

In as much as we shouldn't always point to the paranormal or ghosts for answers, we shouldn't also believe in every conclusion from studies like this.

To believe anybody has the definitive answer takes a huge leap of faith if you ask me.
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#34
Also, i will say, Sweeny, If i saw big foot face to face, yes, i would believe in it.
Me too K2 but whether that Bigfoot was a flesh and blood missing link type creature, a big man in a convincing suit or a self delusion would be subject to discussion. The least likely being a genuine creature was observed that was indeed a Bigfoot. Having said that - I actually believe in these creatures.

Unless there may be a person that just happens to have a costume on!!!!!!
That would not be beyond the bounds of possibility. It may have happened in the famous Paterson/Gimlin film and has probably happened many times since, certainly in the many photographs on record.

Seeing for many people is believing but that's a very low bar to set for ones self in terms of the evidence required to come to a more informed conclusion.

Many investigators and studies have come to the conclusion that ghosts exist but these are highly subjective. Looking at specific studies we soon find that the way the data was collected and analysed is questionable to say the least. Conclusions drawn are inevitably biased and the data not peer reviewed via published scientific papers.

DB or Sweeny Icontexto-emoticons-04-032x032
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
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#35
Sweeny, I can see the point your making, however sometimes the thing we see with our eyes is actually what we think it is.

Do the people who claim to have seen ghosts (millions upon millions the world over) really always mistake what they see? Are all those accounts really due to hallucination or shadows from outside lights? Possibly, but I allow room to believe that sometimes they have seen something genuinely paranormal.

Of course I come from the "open minded/believer" catagory so that's why I feel this way Smile

We can't always trust our eyes, but we can't always simply dismiss what we see either. Not always.
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#36
Hi Fiona,

I agree, many times - what we observe is exactly that. It happens 24/7 for most of us but there are occasions where our senses do deceive us. I don't doubt that millions,if not billions, of
people have seen ghosts, there's obviously something going on but whether these people are seeing spirits of the dead is debateable and certainly not proven by science since as yet there is not one scrap of
real evidence to suggest that the dead can return and visit the living. This is not for the want of looking.
So many subjective factors come into play with ghost sightings, especially when we're dealing with anecdotes or even our own experiences - given the constructive nature of memory and how our experiences
are coloured by cultural and emotional factors.
I do agree that in some cases (a tiny minority) there is probably something genuinely unexplainable going on - however - these encounters are not experienced under controlled conditions, are not replicated and are as subject to
personal biases as every other reported case but they just seem to defy explanation.

To dismiss every ghostly report outright would be cynicism - to be sceptical is the most rational stance to take. I consider every ghost sighting and story at face value. Unfortunately the bulk of these are just stories and no
matter how convinced the storyteller he or she is of the experience there is nothing other than the story to support their claim. I would dearly love to see accounts and experiences that are supported with independent
verification, pictures, audio and video evidence but having investigated many haunted places myself I know that this is just not possible to do.

Like agent Mulder - I want to believe - I just want to convincing evidence before I do.

DB
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
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#37
D B Really, the only way to believe in spirits and ghosts is to see it for yourself. If you have never had the experience, why should you believe in the first place?

Going back to the 40 year study, i wonder why it took them 40 years to come up with thier findings? Just wondering, thats all....
Pride and Fear always distort the truth into either a false sense of security or a lack of confidence and diminished self-worth.

Angel WIngs



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#38
Hi K2M,

I've seen what could be described as ghosts on several occasions and used to be firm believer in spirits until I started to study subjects such as
cognitive human psychology and understand how we form our perceptions and beliefs. As a sceptic I'm not ruling out the possibility that ghosts exist, I've just not
yet seen any compelling evidence.

DB
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
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