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Giving advice on demons
#11
I agree!

Lots of people are quick to throw the demon card before investigating to see if it could perhaps be something else.

But like you jw, I have no demon experience so I dont respond to the post much either
Faeries, come take me out of this dull world,
For I would ride with you upon the wind,
Run on the top of the dishevelled tide,
And dance upon the mountains like a flame.
(William Butler Yeats, "The Land of Heart's Desire," 1894)



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#12
People come here and make claims they or a friend is being attacked by a demon. Well what do we do? Shall we do what’s right and refer them to a doctor and tell them to tell the doctor everything. Then the doctor (if it’s a good doctor) can decide if they need further testing and a psychological evaluation? This is what should happen but this upsets the person as they will think your calling them crazy, when what we are actually doing is doing the first step of helping them, the correct way. The Catholic Church and all exorcists should do this but they don’t. While the Catholic Church probably does it more then others its said 1 in 5,000 claims are taken, cases still slip through where a person suffering from neurological disorders is, through incompetence or pressure from outside sources subject to an exorcism.
Now we have had claimed exorcists and claimed demonologists join the forum but when asked questions they disappear. Why?

What are signs of a demonic possession? Look around and try and find out. Its much harder then you think.
1. You will see most claimed exorcists and demonologists have different ideas. Now if you take time to look at the ones that come to the front the most you see how much they mirror psychological and neurological disorders.
a. Super human strength well lets look at adrenaline pump instead.
b. Talking in a strange language, lets look at tourettes instead. How many times have you seen a tape of a person supposedly talking in an ancient language have it interpreted? Never?
c. Addictions, are these the cause of a demon? Or did something else happen in your life to drive you to it? Stress, molestation, or abuse to name a few causes.
d. Blank stares or looking eyes. Once again it can be a number of different types of seizures. Some from trigger objects, stress, lack of sleep, worry, alcohol or drug reactions, both prescribed or street.
e. Extreme sexual behavior and thoughts a demon? How about a rare side effect of being schizophrenic.

So what is the right thing to do? Most people that come in asking for help aren’t possessed or having troubles with demons. So if options are offered to them and in their mind they help then we did the right thing. The last thing any of us want to do is drive a person to some quack who will milk them for thousands of dollars and not help them. Just listening and offering a simple solution can put their mind at ease for a while and maybe as they get comfortable with us we can get them the proper help or by just having people who understand may figure it out on their own.

Now I am not an expert and have never claimed to be, what I have done is read and read more. I have searched for answers from so called demonoligists and exorcists, have I gotten any? No usually I am attacked for asking questions or they suddenly disappear and won’t respond. HauntedLady and I have both requested additional dialogue with some of the claimed experts and it never happens.
Belief bias occurs when we make illogical conclusions in order to confirm our preexisting beliefs. Belief perseverance refers to our tendency to maintain a belief even after the evidence we used to form the belief is contradicted.
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#13
(01-05-2010, 06:32 PM)UglyNRude Wrote: HauntedLady and I have both requested additional dialogue with some of the claimed experts and it never happens.

This is very true UNR, it's happened more than once.
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. ~Friedrich Nietzsche

Feel free to tell me what you need and I will tell you how to get by without it. ~Mom

For the believer, both the evidence of science and the failure of science to explain the paranormal is all the proof they need. For the skeptic, no evidence no matter how scientific will ever be proof enough. ~John Zaffis
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#14
So we are called to establish the rarity of actual "demonic possession" which causes us to shine a very discerning light of doubt on the hordes of people who post about their experience with this.

I think we are moving in the right direction. My experience forces me to go one tiny step further.

There are spirits who are "not very loving". Dead people who have yet to go to the light. These are very rare. If they weren't we would have our TV ghost hunters doing more than watching a thermometer drop and doing a take from the famous "snot running scared closeup" from Blair Witch saying "what was that?" (cut to commercial). And even these folks are far from "evil". Evil is just too harsh a word. I reserve that for the entities still in bodies. Watch the news.

The other side is about love. Yes it is. They are ever working on "exorcizing" the negativity, hatred and self loathing that our free will has us "possessed" with.

There are NO demons or devils or hell....except on forums like this, religions, cultural myths and hollywood. Hooray for Hollywood! I like scary movies.

For those who don't know... my info comes from the experience of thousands of dead people that my wife talks to at length daily. And also my direct questioning of her Spirit Guide whom I trust explicitly.

Making all of that "just my opinion".

Now put your hand on the monitor. I hereby expel "dermons" from the internet in the name of jesus...or the blood of jesus...or YAHSHUA. Go and sin no more...and knock off the porn...you'll go blind!

Wage Peace
den
It ends in joy
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#15
Den, although I don't completely agree with your stand on the matter...I do respect it and I thank you for sharing.

You brought up spirits that are 'not very loving' which is something I have only briefly touched on before here in the forum. I have know this to be true as well. The way I see it is that people who are not very nice in this life don't just suddenly transform into nice little ghosties. They can be just as mean and hateful as they were in life...and many do not understand they have passed on.

Also I have heard people say that shadowpeople are evil or demonic, another point I don't agree with. They are watchers. We don't know why they watch, and our fear gets the better of us. Fear is a crippling thing.

Any time there is a sense of negativity people generally describe it as being evil or demonic. We feel the negative energy and jump to conclusions all too often. Learning to discern between the worlds and understand their various behaviors is the only thing that will ever really bring us knowledge.

Which is another reason why I would like to see a standard in place...so that we can readily identify the differences between entities and have a real understanding in the appropriate ways to handle them and be of help to others.
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. ~Friedrich Nietzsche

Feel free to tell me what you need and I will tell you how to get by without it. ~Mom

For the believer, both the evidence of science and the failure of science to explain the paranormal is all the proof they need. For the skeptic, no evidence no matter how scientific will ever be proof enough. ~John Zaffis
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#16
I do not know if demons exist or not. My instincts tell me that majority of these hauntings are bad/evil spirits. They were not good people in life, so why would they be in death?

I agree, what are you to say when a person comes here for help? What are supposed to say?

Sometimes it is obvious that it could be a hormonal issue or other medical condition. You can gently suggest a doctors visit.

If the poster continues insisting it is demon and no one with knowledge has posted. I have suggested ways that I protect myself from negative energy. Such as, white light, prayers of protection, burning white candles.

I think that a true demon situation can only be properly handled by a professional. I do not think it is fair to tell a person on the internet how to deal with a true possession. I appreciate when knowledgeable members step in and direct the poster to help.
People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. ~Elisabeth Kübler-Ross
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#17
I do agree with all of you, and i also agree that these shows are really getting people paraniod. It all comes down to money!!!

Now, in my case, i did see something the day my daughter was killed, the boy actually had a deep gluteral voice, and his face was disstorted. I looked him right in the eyes, and did not take my eyes off him. I dont know what it was, but something for sure. I have never known anyone to actually come face to face with this like i did... His face was deformed, and i had known him for 3 years, this was not the same guy. I dont know if i will ever get help from what i have been through!! I just feel in my own little world as far as that goes. The thing is, its unbelievable, i know that.... if someone told me the same thing i dont think i would believe them.....I can see his face, right there....it will always stick in my mind.. i knew as i stood there talking to this boy, that it was not him...
Pride and Fear always distort the truth into either a false sense of security or a lack of confidence and diminished self-worth.

Angel WIngs



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#18
Hm... think it's time for me to chime in again.

Firstly, I do not believe in a hell or a devil. I do however, believe demons exist... my definition of them just doesn't quite match what I see as the judeo-christian definition.

I define demons as malicious non-human incorporeal entities. I think that the definition needs to be fairly loose because there are numerous supposed spirits that are very similar and tend to fit the this mold (one of the first that springs to mind are the djinn of the Arabian regions...so similar the demons that the devil is considered a type of djinn by some). I think that sometimes the lines between "demonic" and simply malicious former human can be blurred, and too often are.

I think the issue here... the real honest to god heart of the matter isn't necessarily how we would define "demonic activity". It's not whether a demon is a beast from hell or whether it's the non-corporeal form of someone who in death would make Charlie Manson look like a pussy cat. The heart of the matter is, when someone comes to these boards afraid for themselves or for a loved one and they think the cause of it all is a demon.... how do we as a group react?

The strong majority of these people need help (there will always be some boys crying wolf), and since we're not down the block from them... we can't always judge their claims to the best of our desires. We can't observe them in daily life and see clearly if it's a mental disorder or a genuine paranormal event. Sometimes they are too scared to wait and answer a barrage of questions. So... what do we tell them?
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#19
One of the things I always say to do is to start documenting everything....not just the events that seem paranormal, but everything going on in the person's life, what situations are going on, stress levels, etc...to look for some kind of pattern as to when they are most vulnerable. In doing this, I believe it not only gives a person power in the situation, but it will be helpful to keep that record if outside help is required to get rid of something....or to rule out anything demonic.

I also stress that I am not an expert, or a professional, or anything but a fan of all things paranormal..and I've had some experiences that alternately frightened and fascinated me.
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ~Philip K. Dick

http://paranormalinreview2.zohosites.com/home.html

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#20
(01-06-2010, 09:17 AM)Browncoat Wrote: The strong majority of these people need help (there will always be some boys crying wolf), and since we're not down the block from them... we can't always judge their claims to the best of our desires. We can't observe them in daily life and see clearly if it's a mental disorder or a genuine paranormal event. Sometimes they are too scared to wait and answer a barrage of questions. So... what do we tell them?

I would say we continue to carry on as we have. I have not seen any member give advice that would put a person in harm's way.

I agree, we cannot observe if it psychological or a true demonic attack. I cannot see any level headed individual expecting a forum to solve their situation over the internet. All we can do is comfort the poster, acknowledge their feelings, and offer suggestions.

Regarding asking questions, quite often the OP is not clear in what they are saying. Why would you not ask them questions for clarification purposes? We are not present in their everyday life. Better to ask questions, then to assume.
People are like stained-glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within. ~Elisabeth Kübler-Ross
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