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Who is yr Favorite Demon, and Why?
I'm not claiming that at all. I'm claiming that there are two ways in which you can approach an argument of whether or not Lilith was a demon. One way is by saying demons don't exist, therefore Lilith wasn't a demon. The other way is by saying demons do exist, in which case your standards of demons are baseless. Specifically, the idea that demons have "gimmicks". It's ludicrous.

As for you saying to "paraphrased", Where's the paraphrase in "when she died and stories were told, it was through the stories that demonized her. It was sayings akin to "Don't become a Lilith." or "You just Lilith that."." This statement neither confirms nor denies her demon status. Stories can be told to children to scare them, but stories can also be truths passed down from centuries. Both are just as possible. Of course, they are only plausible if you take one of the two stances on whether or not demons exist, as I mentioned above. Again.

Perhaps you're just interpreting the translated texts wrong.
Again. You are not understanding my argument. I am not going to produce a blanket statement to state broadly why something is not what it is. If I have text, I will read it and pass it along to those who ask for it.

Don't disrespect me in saying that I cannot paraphrase properly. I need to be completely direct with you as I've dealt with your type before. I am not discussing whether demons are real or not. The topic I am discussing is whether Lilith herself was an actual demon. I've presented my evidence straight from the sources themselves. You've presented nothing but broad blanket statements to conclude a point to something I am not even discussing. Next time, please try to understand what the topic that is currently being discussed.

Furthermore, this thread had gone completely off topic. Let's return to the original topic, please.
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As for you citing anything, you did not provide any links, Mika. You can not simply say you have 8 sources and say you're right without any linking. I would need to confirm your sources by checking them myself.

I had been hoping to avoid this, but... 

Vultyrex, I think I'm beginning to understand why I'm having such problems getting my point across you you.  It's clear you aren't actually reading all of my posts.  As KaelisRa pointed out, I did post a number of links... go back to page 1 of this thread, my 3rd post.  They're all right there.  Admittedly, I didn't provide scholarly citation for each, but the links have been there for you to look into all this time.

I still highly recommend you read the entire articles or sections, for context, but to save you some reading I'll happily break them down for you, one by one.

Still, let me be clear... I am not attempting to prove that Lilith is a demon.  That is not something that can be proven.  I am presenting evidence that, in Judeo-Christian religious canon, it is generally accepted that Lilith is a demon.

This is the section of the Dead Sea Scrolls that tells the story of Lilith.  I did quote a portion of it, relating to Lilith being immortal, but I didn’t feel comfortable posting the whole thing on a forum with members as young as nine years of age.

I wanted to start off with a secular source, largely because they have no obvious personal interests in the matter or religion.  This website is dedicated to an understanding of the history of the human race, anything from Anthropology to Unexplained Mysteries.  Basically, an effort to piece everything together.  To get the full gist, you really need to read the full article, but here’s one relevant quote.

“Lilith is one of the oldest known female spirits of the world. Her roots come from the famous Epic of Gilgamesh, but she was also described in the Bible and the Talmud.  In Jewish tradition, she is the most notorious demon, but in some other sources she appears as the first woman created on Earth. According to a legend, God formed Lilith as the first woman. He did it in the same way as he created Adam. The only difference was that in place of pure dust, he also used filth and residue. Traditionally Lilith means ‘the night’ and she is related to attributes connected with the spiritual aspects of sensuality and freedom, but also terror.”

Bible History Daily is a non-profit website/organization dedicated to helping people understand the bible.  ‘Cos, let’s be real… it’s a difficult read, at times.  It’s an interesting read, but for our purposes…

The ancient name ‘Lilith’ derives from a Sumerian word for female demons or wind spirits—the lilītu and the related ardat lilǐ”

Not exactly the train of thought I would necessarily embrace, this on is a non-profit Jewish and Feminist organization.  (Simply so I don’t have to repeat the ‘non-profit’ thing… .org is reserved for non-profits, .gov is for the US government, .com or .net is for anyone.) 

Jewish tradition characterized Lilith after her escape from Adam as a demon and embellished this reputation with legend upon legend of her vengeful activities to harm children and women who give birth in rooms without industrial-strength amulets to ward her off.”
That sarcasm at the end is because of a recent (past 50 years or so) movement to portray Lilith as not a demon, but rather as the world's first feminist.

Jewish Women’s Archive.  Another organization with every reason to prove Lilith was not a demon.

“Until the late twentieth century the demon Lilith, Adam’s first wife, had a fearsome reputation as a kidnapper and murderer of children and seducer of men.”

Lilith, female demonic figure of Jewish folklore. Her name and personality are thought to be derived from the class of Mesopotamian demons called lilû (feminine: lilītu), and the name is usually translated as “night monster.” A cult associated with Lilith survived among some Jews as late as the 7th century CE. The evil she threatened, especially against children and women in childbirth, was said to be counteracted by the wearing of an amulet bearing the names of certain angels.”

Another secular source.  Please tell me, of all institutions, we can at least agree that the Encyclopedia Britannica is trustworthy and unbiased.

A Christian institute dedicated to the understanding of Christian beliefs.  Honestly, I can’t say I agree with all the things posited in this paper, but only cowards only address opinions that they agree with.  For a full understanding, read the full article.  But if I’m forced into a soundbite, I choose this one…

Lilith has a long history in Mesopotamian religions, as far back as the Epic of Gilgamesh, where she appears as a demoness whom Gilgamesh chases into the desert. Since then, she has appeared in numerous stories and legends associated with wilderness. She even gets a mention in the Bible, Isaiah 34:14: “Wildcats shall meet hyenas, / Goat-demons shall greet each other; / There too the lilith shall repose.”

Lilith is the most notorious demon in Jewish tradition. In some sources, she is conceived of as the original woman, created even before Eve, and she is often presented as a thief of newborn infants. Lilith means ‘the night,’ and she embodies the emotional and spiritual aspects of darkness: terror, sensuality, and unbridled freedom.”

Another non-profit Jewish outreach website.

Now, does any of this prove that Lilith was a demon?  No.  What it does prove is that the concept of Lilith as demon is a fairly well known and accepted one.

On the subject of links, you state that you 'looked into' Lilith, but provided no links to support what, I consider, a rather inaccurate representation of the story behind her.  

"Lilith was obnoxious and selfish. So selfish that she wanted to be Adam's superior."  That, in itself, makes me wonder if you actually read the text of the Dead Sea Scrolls, or just some blogger's interpretation of the lore.  

I'll quote the actual text here, "Adam wanted her to lie beneath him, but Lilith insisted that he lie below her. When Lilith saw that they would never agree, she uttered God’s Name and flew into the air and fled from Adam."

Lilith wasn't asking for any more than Adam was asking.  She was no more 'selfish' or 'obnoxious' than he was.  He claimed dominance in the relationship and her response was 'woah, wait a minute here... why should you be the dominant one?'

"Then Adam prayed to his Creator, saying, “Master of the Universe, the woman you gave me has already left me.” So God called upon three angels, Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, to bring her back. God said, “Go and fetch Lilith. If she agrees to go back, fine. If not, bring her back by force.

Who is being selfish and obnoxious here?  Lilith broke up with Adam.  Adam went whining to his Father like a baby.  He acted as though Lilith was property, due to him by right of ownership.  Classic abusive behavior... it's no wonder she wanted out of the relationship.  

"I ask this, even is (sic) Lilith was a demon, what was she a demon of?"  Sorry, Vultyrex, but that simply makes no sense.  Why would a demon need a theme?  Consider the demons that Jesus exorcised from the man possessed, who then fled into a flock of pigs and drowned themselves.  "My name is Legion, for we are many."  Mark 5:9.  What, exactly, was Legion the demon of?  Suicidal swine?  Still, if we must categorize everything, Lilith is the Mother of Demons and "was created to strangle newborn infants, boys before the eighth day and girls before the twentieth."  

And this is a key point here, going back to the absurd notion that God created a demon wife for Adam.  Lilith was human in the beginning, just like Adam, but God also laid the buliding blocks for her to be something more.  Instead of being made from dust, as Adam was, God also included 'filth and residue' in her being, priming her for her latter role as demon.  I disagree with KaelisRa on this matter... Lilith couldn't become a true demon simply through her defiant actions.  Only God can create demons.  So, the logic would be that God turned Lilith into a demon when she fled from Adam.  Also, that He knew this would be the outcome of their relationship, much in the same way that He knew His Son would be crucified and that Lucifer would rebel.  That's why God included the 'filth and residue' in her makeup.  If God's plan was to provide a true mate for Adam, he would have made Lilith simply out of dust. 

Which brings us back to the question of whether of not Lilith was a demon.  Theological discussions such as these are not something that can be broken down into soundbites or single paragraph replies.  I feel the text itself produces a fairly strong logical argument that she was born a human but lived/lives as a demon.

We're all entitled to our own beliefs.  If you, Vultyrex, want to believe that Lilith was born and died as a human, I'm cool with that.  If you, KaelisRa, prefer to think of her as some form of evil spirit... and I'm not saying you do... you are entitled to that belief.  But, Vultyrex, please... do not tell me that my beliefs are wrong and yrs are correct without even trying to understand why I choose to place my beliefs where I do.

And, incidentally... go back and read my posts.  Not once did I say that yr opinions on this matter were incorrect or that mine were more accurate.

8 )
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I agree, this is not the thread I had intended, but I fear we've long since scared off anyone who might have participated.  Maybe I'll start a new one, titled 'Who is yr favorite Demon, Spirit or Paranormal Entity' and post it outside the Religion forum... that might be for the best  8 )
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Lmao! Yes, Mika that might be a good idea. It would make it clear that it becomes a matter of personal preference and popular opinion, not a matter of debate.

That being said...
"The topic I am discussing is whether Lilith herself was an actual demon."
You cannot discuss this topic without answering the question of what assumption are you accepting, in order to allow for the possibility. Either demons exist and it's a possibility that can be explored, or demons don't exist and all the reliance on texts is fruitless.

You've been half in and half out of this entire thing. The reason why that is apparent is because of your claim that "when she died and stories were told, it was through the stories that demonized her. It was sayings akin to "Don't become a Lilith." or "You just Lilith that."." That doesn't mean that she wasn't a demon. That simply means that people were telling stories (which you might not be able to verify. Nobody could. There are just writings in books that could easily be taken on faith.). And faith is exactly what we're looking at here. You don't need a "gimmick". Gimmicks are man-made. Lack of a gimmick doesn't prove she wasn't a demon.

Stories don't prove she wasn't a demon. Lack of a gimmick doesn't either. References to a "satirical" book doesn't disprove her demonic stature. Yet everything Mika has listed lends itself to the general acceptance of her "legitimate" demonization. Just like largely benevolent people find themselves considered saints.

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