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How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?
#1
How and why can people ignore their God’s immoral ways?

I find it quite strange that Christian, Muslims and Jews can ignore the immoral ways that their God is shown to have in the Bible, Qur’an and Talmud.

If you have read any of the critical books on God, you will have seen God described with some rather disingenuous terms that, if applied to a man, would see that man executed by any moral government in quick order. The Buddhist saying that if you ever meet God, kill him seems quite fitting. Frankly, I think killing him without making him suffer for a time would be too good for him. If hell were real, that would be a better end for him as mankind would surely need to see that torture to gain real closure for God’s crimes against humanity. This aside.

I can appreciate the value for society of local churches, mosques and temples but cannot fathom why lying priests, preachers and imams try to sell their God as a good God, when he is obviously more satanic than Satan. Perhaps scripture speak at least one truth in that the whole world would be deceived by Satan and his lying preachers and imams. Not that I believe in Satan.

As a Gnostic Christian, my focus has been to try to become a Parfait, a perfected moral man, using the methods Jesus taught. It has been a long climb up Jacob’s ladder and apotheosis put me up one rung and I have tried to climb higher, but seem to have stalled due to my inability to find arguments that are persuasive enough to loosen Satan’s grip on the minds of Christians, Muslims and Jews. Their need of fellowship is stronger than their work on their moral sense and they stay in their religions even though they know that their God is immoral and not worthy of their idol worship. This Gnostic Christian truth is not a flattering epithet for God, which is likely what cause their destruction by Inquisition.

The truth hurts the religious even when given with a loving touch. I am not that good at that but have seen good honest lovers of Christ get verbally abused by theists. They think hate is motivating those who speak against their God even when love is the motivator. Hate is born of love, and the Gnostic hate of God is justified on moral grounds, and the attempted correction of a believers moral sense and their thinking is done out of love. They forget that that is how Jesus was and how that love driven expression of hate with what he saw around him almost got him killed at the hands of the Jews. So the myth says.

The fact that I have had many theists resist entering into moral argument of their God indicates that they know that their God is immoral. I can appreciate that once a person accepts the fellowship that his tribal nature seeks, and he can survive without having better morals, he is loath to jeopardize the comfort zone he has created for himself. The problem is that theists are living in self-deception and for one who seeks or has attained Gnosis, a deeper knowing of himself, self-deception is basically not allowed. That is why I have to bother fighting a fight that is almost un-winnable.

If you have an answer to the question I posed at the onset, please enlighten me as I am quite disappointed to see so many living in self-deception and without Gnosis, and following Gods who are demonstrably more Satan like than God like.

In the terrible days that we will face from environmental degradation that will soon be upon us, a new and moral God will be required and we presently do not have one.

I recognize that our tribal and fellowship needs are quite strong and a part of our basic instincts. Do you have any idea as to how we can break Satan’s hold on Christians, Muslims and Jews and change their fellowship and tribal needs to a need for a God with decent moral values?

Regards
DL
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#2
The reason why people can ignore their God's immoral ways is the same reason why you, as a Gnostic Christian, continue to approach morality from a religious stand-point. Nobody has developed the proper logical faculties to be able to objectively talk about/discover what is actually moral. Thus, they fall back to laziness and blind-faith, to accept the pre-ordained "truths" of morality and never need to answer any difficult questions.

It is unfair of you to ask why people choose to follow their "immoral" gods, and not answer why you are following Jesus' teachings. Furthermore, morality being a personal endeavour, where you are responsible for your own actions, there is no reason why you should "seem to have stalled" for anything not to do with yourself. That is called putting the blame of your own short-comings onto others. That is both immoral and counter-productive to a good moral lifestyle.
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#3
(11-29-2017, 07:25 PM)KaelisRa Wrote: The reason why people can ignore their God's immoral ways is the same reason why you, as a Gnostic Christian, continue to approach morality from a religious stand-point. Nobody has developed the proper logical faculties to be able to objectively talk about/discover what is actually moral. Thus, they fall back to laziness and blind-faith, to accept the pre-ordained "truths" of morality and never need to answer any difficult questions.

It is unfair of you to ask why people choose to follow their "immoral" gods, and not answer why you are following Jesus' teachings. Furthermore, morality being a personal endeavour, where you are responsible for your own actions, there is no reason why you should "seem to have stalled" for anything not to do with yourself. That is called putting the blame of your own short-comings onto others. That is both immoral and counter-productive to a good moral lifestyle.

Follow Jesus! Hell no. Not me my friend. At least not the Jesus that was Rome created.

I think many of his tenets to be quite immoral. Especially his no divorce policy and his substitutionary atonement policy.

I do use the more esoteric Jesus' way or recommendations for mediation and seeking/using Gnosis but that is about all.

That Jesus wants to free us from immoral religions while the Jesus most know wants to slave us to the immoral creeds.

How can following a genocidal and immoral God help theists to live a more productive, good and moral lifestyle?

BTW, most of my morality came from secular sources more than religious sources. Those religious sources offer immoral pricks for Gods and their morality has to be reversed to find what the better moral path is.

No one should be fool enough to follow a genocidal God like Yahweh and think him good.

Regards
DL
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#4
My big dilemma that I had as a Christian was the idea that God would create the human race and knowing ahead of time that he would send most of them to hell, including good people who never accepted the gospel or the so-called correct version of it. I know many good folks that have gone through life being the best persons they can be that have not embraced Christianity. The idea that God would send them to hell is something I cannot wrap my mind around. And with over 30 thousand Christian denominations preaching different versions of the gospel and God sending poor souls to hell for believing a so-called pseudo-gospel is more than I can except. And the main Christian doctrine of original sin teaching that we all are born into sin and deserve to go to hell because of Adam's sin and the only way to not go to hell is to believe that Jesus died for our sins and that we need to convert to Christianity, this is troubling because we are expected to come by faith via word of mouth and being "evangelized". I personally believe that God wants us to follow Him the best we can by what has been revealed to us. Religion seems to cause more division between people than anything else. People who point fingers at others and condemning them to hell because they don't believe the way they do is so unfortunate.
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#5
It seems obvious that something has been lost in translation, I agree. I mean, there are devout Buddhist monasteries in remote locations that live good and moral lives. I find it hard to believe that those individuals, who live lives better and more moral than many christians, are going to hell for their "sinful" ways.

Obviously, the religion took a turn toward power-hungry, and it stopped being about the people. You can best judge a moral system off of how they treat those that transgress upon it.
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#6
(12-06-2017, 03:31 PM)jlitt Wrote: I personally believe that God wants us to follow Him the best we can by what has been revealed to us.

I sniped your good reply for brevity.

What do you see as a revelation from God and which God are you thinking gave those revelations?

Regards
DL


(12-06-2017, 08:09 PM)KaelisRa Wrote: It seems obvious that something has been lost in translation, I agree. I mean, there are devout Buddhist monasteries in remote locations that live good and moral lives. I find it hard to believe that those individuals, who live lives better and more moral than many christians, are going to hell for their "sinful" ways.

Obviously, the religion took a turn toward power-hungry, and it stopped being about the people. You can best judge a moral system off of how they treat those that transgress upon it.

Nicely put.

I apply that thinking to the death penalty.

It is hard for a nation to show that it venerates life while taking it.

Regards
DL
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#7
I have always had a sense for God, and the human race has since history began as is obvious by man acknowledging a higher being, something that archaeology and ancient writings reveal. But I have personally had God interacting in my life so many times, and I have seen the power of prayer and meditation. Thankfully God has given me signs by allowing me to have some interaction with the spirit world by seeing spirits and having premonitions. I am very open minded these days and I am not dogmatic about any belief system or anything spiritual other than what little I know by experiencing myself. I have made a rule for myself that I am only going to believe with certainty those things that I experience personally. Not that I dont research what others say and be open, but when it comes to being certain, I feel I cant go wrong letting God show me personally, whether that means living my life with a few signs from God and lots of mystery that I will not know till perhaps the next step for the life of my soul. I want to learn those deep mysteries but I am content with saying I dont know.
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#8
(12-07-2017, 12:56 PM)jlitt Wrote: I have always had a sense for God, and the human race has since history began as is obvious by man acknowledging a higher being, something that archaeology and ancient writings reveal. But I have personally had God interacting in my life so many times, and I have seen the power of prayer and meditation. Thankfully God has given me signs by allowing me to have some interaction with the spirit world by seeing spirits and having premonitions. I am very open minded these days and I am not dogmatic about any belief system or anything spiritual other than what little I know by experiencing myself. I have made a rule for myself that I am only going to believe with certainty those things that I experience personally. Not that I dont research what others say and be open, but when it comes to being certain, I feel I cant go wrong letting God show me personally, whether that means living my life with a few signs from God and lots of mystery that I will not know till perhaps the next step for the life of my soul. I want to learn those deep mysteries but I am content with saying I dont know.

I myself have claimed apotheosis but do not see what I found as supernatural.

Tell us about your interaction with the spirit world.

Be specific please.

Three thinks you might look into or find interesting which all apply to internal mental activity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWx_uVDh4Cw&t=225s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IqYHiejTVM&t=369s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_complex

You might not want to believe in the supernatural without positive confirmation.

Regards
DL
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#9
I dont need anyone's approval or outside confirmation, that is when people get off track. I am 44 years old and I am a thinker and extremely skeptical, though very open-minded about possibilities outside of my presuppositions. My spiritual life is under my personal microscope constantly because I take it serious and only seek truth. I cant prove any of it to anyone and I have no interest in that anyway. I love to share my experiences so others can listen and decide for themselves if it inspires them or not. I like to read others experiences.

As for my interactions with the spirit world, I have seen spirits most of my life, especially when I was young but I had times in my life that I dont recall. It always spooked me and I tried to block it out and think my eyes and brain was playing tricks on me. I have also had premonitions that I never could deny, especially back in 1999 when I dreamed of a coworker getting killed at work 2 months before it happened, and it was as detailed as it could possibly get. The day I walked in when it happened I had a feeling of gloom all the way in to work, then to find out it happened right down to every single detail of my dream. The spirits I see are not with my physical eyes but with my mind, which is typical for a clairvoyant. I often see a blue cloud-like spirit, and I sometimes see quick movements of dark or bright light. Sometimes I see a lot of movement in the room as if I am seeing it through a veil. I have recently embraced this ability and am trying to see and hear more, but its not like I am seeing dead people walking around. I had an encounter with an evil spirit once. I was laying in bed and I was paralyzed but I was very conscience. I felt a strong pressure around my head and a whispering in my ear repeating over and over saying I am going to kill you. I was terrified and helpless, and it felt like my head was being crushed. I started crying out to God for help and it let loose and I was able to move, and I felt a powerful presence of evil in the room fade off.

I really dont need the usual critique and debunk. It is what it is and take it or leave it. I dont need the sites that do the debunking stuff, that is what they do and their only interest, and it gets people nowhere because being open to possibities is not on their creed.
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#10
(12-07-2017, 04:51 PM)jlitt Wrote: I dont need anyone's approval or outside confirmation, that is when people get off track. I am 44 years old and I am a thinker and extremely skeptical, though very open-minded about possibilities outside of my presuppositions. My spiritual life is under my personal microscope constantly because I take it serious and only seek truth. I cant prove any of it to anyone and I have no interest in that anyway. I love to share my experiences so others can listen and decide for themselves if it inspires them or not.

Living life with inspiration is important, but only insofar as that inspiration is going to have a physical change on your life. If you have inspiration and nothing to apply that inspiration toward, you are wasting inspiration. By the looks of things, you haven't done any work to justify belief. You are simply taking these beliefs blindly, because you were terrified one day in the past. You can't base beliefs on fear. That only causes more problems in your life.

I highly recommend taking the time to justify your beliefs in a more solid manner. If you find that you become rigid when asked to justify your beliefs, you haven't done enough work.

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