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Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?
10-11-2017, 05:44 PM
Post: #1
Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?
Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?

Scripture are clear. Sin and death entered this world through Adam, and he was thus to blame for original sin.

Yet God rewarded Adam with dominion over Eve even though Eve was not responsible for sin and death entering the world. Gen3:16 and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This shows God continuing the policy of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty that is shown in scriptures. 1Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

God seems to be rewarding Adam for sin while punishing Eve for the events in Eden even though she was innocent of sin as she did not have any evil intent and was deceived by Satan, a force that she could not possibly resist thanks to God giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world after God put Satan in Eden with Eve.

If making man ruler over women that was an error, it would help explain the 5,000 years of war we have had to endure with undeserving men as rulers.

Gnostic Christianity, a Universalist belief system, believes in full equality for all souls. Christianity obviously does not believe in equality if it preaches that men are to perpetually enjoy ruling over women. Not to mention the inequality of gays.

Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve and thus punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL
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11-05-2017, 02:31 AM
Post: #2
RE: Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?
(10-11-2017 05:44 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?

Scripture are clear. Sin and death entered this world through Adam, and he was thus to blame for original sin.

I think it is more correct to say that the original sin was also due to Eve. Certainly God asked Adam first and he did not take responsibility for his actions but rather blamed Eve. But then God asked Eve and she did the same and blamed the serpent. So neither one acknowledged their wrong doing, neither showed remorse, i.e., a change of heart and neither sought forgiveness. This is the real sin that caused death and not the eating of the forbidden fruit.

Why does not acknowledging, not having remorse and not seeking forgiveness / wanting to make amends cause death? Because to go down this path one does not heed their conscience. That means they become essentially unconscious of others and other's pain and suffering so they have lowered their consciousness, which is the spiritual currency. Reducing consciousness brings spiritual darkness.. death in real terms and not just the shedding of the body.

So really the serpent didn't lie. It wasn't in the eating but in what they did afterwards that cause them to die.

(10-11-2017 05:44 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  Yet God rewarded Adam with dominion over Eve even though Eve was not responsible for sin and death entering the world. Gen3:16 and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This shows God continuing the policy of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty that is shown in scriptures. 1Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. God seems to be rewarding Adam for sin while punishing Eve for the events in Eden even though she was innocent of sin as she did not have any evil intent....

I don't ever read scripture without keeping in mind that there can be corruption. And the leters of Peter are even in dispute by historians. There is a question if he wrote one or even either of them.The two letters have different styles and even display different levels of learning.

In English whatever you say or write, another person will find it hard to know your level of education. In Greek however, as soon as you open your mouth, another person knows exactly how well or poorly educated you may be. The Greek grammar is the main reason. I had counted once that there are around 200 declensions for a verb. You can talk about mood, tense, fine shades of meaning of past and future etc., etc., with just one word.. the verb. You can convey so much in Greek with one verb in some cases that in English you would require a whole sentence. to say the same thing. So knowledge of the full repertoire and how well you can command the Greek grammar, clearly shows up how much education the person has.

I think a lot of what Paul had to say was total fabrication and I suspect for the sake of the Romans. So I wouldn't put much on any of Paul and even some of the other letters, like the letters of Peter, could have been written by Paul or others church leaders later. Some of them were corrupt.

Why would God give Adam the command to rule over Eve? One reason could have nothing to do with punishment, but that she was too easily swayed by the cunning of the serpent. However Adam was also swayed by Eve. So was this even a possibility? Why would God give the man rule over the woman, who was able to sway him?

I think it is corruption because men want to rule over women. So by putting this command into God's mouth it can't be questioned by anyone.

I want to also say here that sin doesn't require evil doing, but only wrong doing. Evil is really a transgression, a deliberate violation of Justice, God's law. So Eve was guilty of doing a sin, she disobeyed God, but had no evil intent as you rightly point out. She didn't disobey for the sake of disobedience but because she was betrayed.

(10-11-2017 05:44 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  and was deceived by Satan, a force that she could not possibly resist thanks to God giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world after God put Satan in Eden with Eve.

I don't think the serpent was Satan. We have a tendency to do that but there is nothing in Genesis that says the serpent was Satan, nor that Satan was in the Garden.

(10-11-2017 05:44 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  If making man ruler over women that was an error, it would help explain the 5,000 years of war we have had to endure with undeserving men as rulers.

This is why I see it as corruption in the holy texts.
True most rulers have been men, but there have been some evil women rulers too. Whether men or women, rulers who are corrupt or evil like to shirk their responsibility for their shocking actions by saying it was a command of God. That way their subjects, most of whom are humane, will remain obedient and won't revolt or begin to see them in a bad light. The same is done today only the rhetoric is different and bad actions, especially military actions, are put down to doing something in the name of freedom or democracy or against some other vilified religion etc.

(10-11-2017 05:44 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  Gnostic Christianity, a Universalist belief system, believes in full equality for all souls. Christianity obviously does not believe in equality if it preaches that men are to perpetually enjoy ruling over women. Not to mention the inequality of gays.

I highly value the Gnostic texts but I don't know if Gnostic Christianity see all souls as having full equality. However, even if they do, I don't think this is correct position. An evil person, whether male, female or gay, who deadens their conscience to do harm to others wilfully and without regard for the other, either for selfish reasons or just plain fun, is not equivalent to the humane person, who has empathy and an conscience and who seek to help and support others and live peacefully, loving and honouring God and Justice. The humane has a soul with a high level of consciousness (light), whereas the inhumane have a dark soul.

(10-11-2017 05:44 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve and thus punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL

I think this is not due to God but the agenda of the inhumane. They seek power over others and to inflict harm, seeing others as objects to by pushed around and generally played with. As their agenda cannot be put forth directly because it would never be accepted and worse than that there would be an open declaration of war against them, they couch it in unclear and false statements, especially in religious terms. Thus they betray others.

Regards
Kyrani
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11-05-2017, 02:47 PM (This post was last modified: 11-05-2017 02:48 PM by Enemy No. 1 Gnostic.)
Post: #3
RE: Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?
Kyrani99

Another good reply.

Your.
"original sin was also due to Eve."

My.
Sin needs evil intent and she had none and that is why she is said to have been deceive instead of it saying she sinned. No one can resist God's powers of deception running through the serpent. That was a set up by God who put it there.

---------

Your.
"This is the real sin that caused death and not the eating of the forbidden fruit."

My.
That is not what Christian dogma or the bible says. Eat of it and die is not eat of it and do not repent and die.

---------

Your.
"neither sought forgiveness."

My.
This is true, and why should they have?

Would you ask your parents to forgive you if they told you to stay mentally blind, eyes closed is how scriptures put it, and as bright as a brick, and not go to school, and you did and came out with a degree I morality? Would you apologise to God after he tells you that you have become like him and developed a moral sense?

I would not and would follow the better Jewish thinking of their myth, before Christianity put their spin on it, and see it as where man was elevated and not where he fell.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/2...-theodicy/

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.

-----------

Your.
"Why would God give Adam the command to rule over Eve? One reason could have nothing to do with punishment, but that she was too easily swayed by the cunning of the serpent."

My.
A serpent she could not resist. That makes a huge difference.
Further, perhaps she recognized the wisdom that was greater than Gods and instinctively knew that she should see knowledge and wisdom and a moral sense.

----------

Your.
"However Adam was also swayed by Eve. So was this even a possibility? Why would God give the man rule over the woman, who was able to sway him?"

At the point of the swaying, perhaps Adam knew instinctively, as he did not know it was good, that he should follow Eves lead and not stay as bright as a brick.

----------

Your.
"She didn't disobey for the sake of disobedience but because she was betrayed."

She was not as far as the Jews were concerned. She was saved from ignorant bliss and guided to a moral sense.

You and I value our moral sense and to say that early humans are sinners for reaching out for it would be wrong.

-------

Your.
"I don't think the serpent was Satan. We have a tendency to do that but there is nothing in Genesis that says the serpent was Satan, nor that Satan was in the Garden."

My.
You are correct but Revelation shows God casting Satan out of heaven and Eden is where the next supernatural serpent like creature pops up. The serpent had to be a supernatural creation as serpents cannot talk human.

Further, if you look at Michelangelo's expulsion painting in the Vatican collection, the serpent has the face and breasts of a woman so could not be just another animal.

I think that, given that Christianity reversed the moral of this myth, that they wanted to vilify both women and the many serpent cults that they wanted to convert to Christianity.

--------

Your.
" The humane has a soul with a high level of consciousness (light), whereas the inhumane have a dark soul."

My.
Yet God creates all souls equal. Right?

If any become dark,it is due to interactions and influence from others who would then bare a portion of their blame for being what they became.

We treat those dark souls differently than the light souls only because we must protect ourselves from them here on earth. God though knows all and has to spread the blame to all who helped create that dark soul.

That is why God must be a universalist and blame all people for all the evil done here.

Regards
DL
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11-07-2017, 11:19 PM
Post: #4
RE: Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?
(11-05-2017 02:47 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  Kyrani99

Another good reply.

Your.
"original sin was also due to Eve."

My.
Sin needs evil intent and she had none and that is why she is said to have been deceive instead of it saying she sinned. No one can resist God's powers of deception running through the serpent. That was a set up by God who put it there.

---------

Your.
"This is the real sin that caused death and not the eating of the forbidden fruit."

My.
That is not what Christian dogma or the bible says. Eat of it and die is not eat of it and do not repent and die.

Hi Gnostic, you have given me some new insights with some of your replies.. thank you!

If sin needs evil intent then how does one discriminate between a sin and a transgression?

In Greek (I'm Greek Australian) sin is amartia, which literally means "missing the mark". It has the meaning of:
* being in error through not seeing a bigger picture or
* ignorance or
* not having giving enough thought or
* not enough understanding.

The person has done or said something which is not in accordance with ethics / Justice/ Righteousness but not deliberately and not with malice.

In my understanding, if evil is involved then there is a blatant, malicious and wilful intent to violate ethics/ Justice /Righteousness and not just the other person/ animal/ environment.

How can the serpent be included in the Garden of Eden as a set up by God? If God set things up then God betrayed Adam and Eve, who were naive. Maybe you could explain what you mean. Why trip them up?

"Knowledge of Good and evil" was an ancient way of saying "knowledge of everything" or "all knowledge". Was Adam and Eve denied knowledge of everything and then tricked into getting the knowledge? Why not just allow them to eat the fruit of all knowledge?

Why would the fruit of the tree of all knowledge earn them death?

And if God did want to trip them up, why put the boot into them as well? This does not tally up with the God of my experience.
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11-08-2017, 12:01 PM
Post: #5
RE: Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?
(11-07-2017 11:19 PM)Kyrani99 Wrote:  
(11-05-2017 02:47 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  Kyrani99

Another good reply.

Your.
"original sin was also due to Eve."

My.
Sin needs evil intent and she had none and that is why she is said to have been deceive instead of it saying she sinned. No one can resist God's powers of deception running through the serpent. That was a set up by God who put it there.

---------

Your.
"This is the real sin that caused death and not the eating of the forbidden fruit."

My.
That is not what Christian dogma or the bible says. Eat of it and die is not eat of it and do not repent and die.

Hi Gnostic, you have given me some new insights with some of your replies.. thank you!

If sin needs evil intent then how does one discriminate between a sin and a transgression?

In Greek (I'm Greek Australian) sin is amartia, which literally means "missing the mark". It has the meaning of:
* being in error through not seeing a bigger picture or
* ignorance or
* not having giving enough thought or
* not enough understanding.

The person has done or said something which is not in accordance with ethics / Justice/ Righteousness but not deliberately and not with malice.

In my understanding, if evil is involved then there is a blatant, malicious and wilful intent to violate ethics/ Justice /Righteousness and not just the other person/ animal/ environment.

How can the serpent be included in the Garden of Eden as a set up by God? If God set things up then God betrayed Adam and Eve, who were naive. Maybe you could explain what you mean. Why trip them up?

"Knowledge of Good and evil" was an ancient way of saying "knowledge of everything" or "all knowledge". Was Adam and Eve denied knowledge of everything and then tricked into getting the knowledge? Why not just allow them to eat the fruit of all knowledge?

Why would the fruit of the tree of all knowledge earn them death?

And if God did want to trip them up, why put the boot into them as well? This does not tally up with the God of my experience.

Nor in mine, which is why I think as the Jews did in that they saw Eden as our place of elevation and not our fall. They do not recognize that immoral concept of Original Sin.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/2...-theodicy/

‘Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.

The serpent, to the Jews, was a good entity, and not at all evil.

Think of the serpent headed staff of Moses.

As to defining sin. Sin to me is what we do with evil intent and creates a victim or someone offended by someone else's actions.

In secular law, a crime is only a crime if mens rea is present. That is defines as evil mind or evil intent. Insanity cases for instance, do not pass the mens rea test and the insane or those not able to know good from evil are treated quite differently from those who do know the difference.

Regards
DL
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11-09-2017, 05:07 AM (This post was last modified: 11-09-2017 06:03 AM by Kyrani99.)
Post: #6
RE: Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?
(11-05-2017 02:47 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  Your.
"neither sought forgiveness."

My.
This is true, and why should they have?

Would you ask your parents to forgive you if they told you to stay mentally blind, eyes closed is how scriptures put it, and as bright as a brick, and not go to school, and you did and came out with a degree I morality? Would you apologise to God after he tells you that you have become like him and developed a moral sense?

I would not and would follow the better Jewish thinking of their myth, before Christianity put their spin on it, and see it as where man was elevated and not where he fell.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/2...-theodicy/

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.

-----------

Would you ask your parents to forgive you if they told you to stay mentally blind, eyes closed is how scriptures put it, and as bright as a brick, and not go to school, and you did and came out with a degree I morality? Would you apologise to God after he tells you that you have become like him and developed a moral sense?

I would not and would follow the better Jewish thinking of their myth, before Christianity put their spin on it, and see it as where man was elevated and not where he fell.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/2...-theodicy/

"Instead of the Fall of man (in the sense of humanity as a whole), Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.

I take it you do know that the Jews do not take the story of Adam and Eve literally, but allegorically. And they have many takes on it. And quite apart from that there is plenty of evidence in the OT/ Torah that many stories were made up to suit some particular ruler at the time. Genocide was committed in the Name of God or because God ordered it. But let’s treat the story as having some worth.
To answer your arguments:
Firstly, disobedience to God cannot be equated to disobedience to parents. My parents were scum. Both had evil /inhumane character. Even when I stayed within the rules that they wanted, they still found excuses to bully me and beat me. My case and many others like me, shows up the glaring faults in psychology/ psychiatry. If their reasoning was right then I too would have “turned out” like my two sibling.. i.e., morally bankrupt and highly exploitative of others. I am the extreme opposite, willing to undergo hardship and suffering in the fight against injustice and expose inhumane people and their practices. So there is nothing genetic about it. It is not about the mortal garment. It has to do with the soul.

So secondly morality is not a learnt characteristic. Morality cannot be taught. Morality is an inherent quality. Conscious beings are originally born with a moral sense because they are all connected spiritually, i.e., they have love and thus also empathy. They feel for others and they will move to help another person in need..

Those, who want to exploit others and do harm to others for the sake of greed and power mongering, first deaden their conscience. This means that they lower their consciousness because they lower their awareness of others and the pain and suffering of others. Thus they become morally bankrupt. They act unethically because they lack empathy. Hence in later births they are born as the degenerate spirits that they are.

This article below is very enlightening on why some Jews are extremely exploitative of others. You only need to look at some of the visible ones like the Rothschilds, who are visible at the top but who have a huge number of others serving them from the lower echelons.

In my experience of Jewish people/ friends, I have not found them to be uniformly exploiters of others).
Have a look at this distortion. Here: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/rabbis-...the-elite/

It says: In either case, what binds the elite – whether an elite of money or of knowledge – is the obligation to temper it with humility and care for others. The commandment of “pe’ah,” leaving the corners of the field for the poor to take, is intended to instruct us that “The earth is the Lord’s, and all that is in it; the world, and all who live in it.” (Psalm 24:1) In other words, not only is it the case that giving to others doesn’t make you anything special, but that failing to do so is a kind of theft, both from God, to Whom your wealth actually belongs, and from the poor, for whom each of us is a caretaker.

Being moral according to this, is giving a small corner of a field to the poor. It supports the idea that the acquisition of immense wealth is a virtue. And that you show morality by throwing a few crumbs to the masses.

I decided to look further into this matter and I watch most of the following videos on YouTube. They are long, but even if you watch snippets of them, you will see that the image of Original Virtue through disobedience and seeing the serpent as a helpful mate leads to gross immorality and not morality.
___________________________

Here The Jewish Conspiracy movie. Just under 3hrs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=529UBVIvlu0

And this one The Jewish Conspiracy (controversial conspiratorial subject).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyqKkvgpwo8&t=1906s

And this Jew also points to the corruption, which is based on Judaism and it pretentions. About 4 hours
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1VyS3M41Pg
Why are Jews so successful? - Former Religious Jew explains
Short 4 mins by a Jew who moved away from Judaism.

I don’t agree with everything said in these videos. For example, I am not a White Supremacist. However these videos also point to gross Jewish immorality, even against other Jew, who speaks up against the grossly unethical actions, let alone Gentile, whom they count for naught.
When you can justify disobedience to God as a gift, then this sheds light on the many of the gross injustices that are done by many Jews. And it is not all Jews.

At about 34 mins into the second video an Israeli woman talks about being persecuted for speaking up against Israeli actions.
At about 1hr 19mins David Icke points out in the video there are many young Jewish people, who are resisting the army call because of the injustices done to Palestinians. These Jews are being persecuted as well. And he goes on to talk about Dr Normal Finklestein and how his career was destroyed for speaking against Jewish immorality. David Icke goes on to show just how many Rothschild Zionist were in powerful government positions to act in ways that were unscrupulous in relation to 9/11.

And in the first video on the Conspiracy Movie, at about 33 mins onwards for 4 mins it names many of the people in Bush’s administration who were Jewish and can’t name them all because there were too many. And it also goes on to say that many appointee in the Clinton Administration were also Jewish. And I think this is relevant because nothing of 9/11 could have been done in the short time Bush was in office before it happened. So if it was an inside job, and I am not alone thinking it was, then I ask you how many of these guys acted in a moral fashion owing to the Original Virtue? It put a whole new take on the words “responsibility for themselves, their decisions and their behaviour.” It can translate to “no responsibility for how they act and behave towards others.”

Thirdly, how on earth can this have anything to do with attainment of free will? Conscious being were created with free will. They never attained it by disobedience to God.

(11-08-2017 12:01 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  The serpent, to the Jews, was a good entity, and not at all evil.

Think of the serpent headed staff of Moses.

As to defining sin. Sin to me is what we do with evil intent and creates a victim or someone offended by someone else's actions.

In secular law, a crime is only a crime if mens rea is present. That is defines as evil mind or evil intent. Insanity cases for instance, do not pass the mens rea test and the insane or those not able to know good from evil are treated quite differently from those who do know the difference.

Regards
DL

The serpent to the Greeks was a symbol of wisdom. It appears on the shield of the Goddess Athena.

BUT if the serpent was to the Jews a good entity, why did following its advice got them out of the Garden of Eden and into a world of toil and trouble?

You definition does not distinguish between wrongdoing that has the express intent of violating Justice and that of merely not taking enough into consideration. It is a one shoe fits all and it allows evil / inhumane people to slot in beside humane people and be counted the same. This is the dangerous position that the "Apostle" Paul has taken, that Jesus was a sacrifice and that all and sundries were included. I know evil people, who go to church and con others that they are on the same ground regardless of what they do because they accept Jesus as their saviour. It is wrong.

The Mens Rea. An element of criminal responsibility, a guilty mind; a guilty or wrongful purpose; a criminal intent. Guilty knowledge and wilfulness. A fundamental principle of Criminal Law is that a crime consists of both a mental and a physical element.

The person, who has been enraged and has lost control and done a crime, has a guilty mind, because they have a guilty conscience. What about the psychopath, who just fancied going to a school with a semi-automatic and "having some fun" killing innocent students? There is no guilty mind. And there is no insanity because he knows that what he is doing is held to be wrong by society.

Under the mens rea there is no case in law against the psychopath! This is not the case though. A court will try him or her and find them guilty and punish them.

Criminal law also doesn't acknowledge the crimes that are done, which are not obvious. Heart attacks, strokes etc., are not seen as crimes but they are.

(11-05-2017 02:47 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  Your.
"I don't think the serpent was Satan. We have a tendency to do that but there is nothing in Genesis that says the serpent was Satan, nor that Satan was in the Garden."

My.
You are correct but Revelation shows God casting Satan out of heaven and Eden is where the next supernatural serpent like creature pops up. The serpent had to be a supernatural creation as serpents cannot talk human.

Further, if you look at Michelangelo's expulsion painting in the Vatican collection, the serpent has the face and breasts of a woman so could not be just another animal.

I think that, given that Christianity reversed the moral of this myth, that they wanted to vilify both women and the many serpent cults that they wanted to convert to Christianity.

--------

I agree with you that Christianity poked the eyes out of the myth. And certainly they wanted to vilify women because there were many cults that were based on female goddesses, e.g., Artemis. And they also wanted to vilify the serpent in many cults, which had nothing to do with evil.


(11-05-2017 02:47 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  Your.
" The humane has a soul with a high level of consciousness (light), whereas the inhumane have a dark soul."

My.
Yet God creates all souls equal. Right?

If any become dark,it is due to interactions and influence from others who would then bare a portion of their blame for being what they became.

We treat those dark souls differently than the light souls only because we must protect ourselves from them here on earth. God though knows all and has to spread the blame to all who helped create that dark soul.

That is why God must be a universalist and blame all people for all the evil done here.

Regards
DL

I agree God created all souls equal.

But, I disagree here. The very idea of Satan was introduced by Jews and Christians and others like the Zoroastrians, to take away the responsibility one has for their actions. They try to blame bad actions on Satan's influence, which is rubbish. Satan has ZERO chance of influencing a humane person to do some crime. The reason being that a humane person has a moral compass.. their conscience.

Darkness of the soul happens with the reduction of consciousness and that happens when the person deadens their conscience. That is to say they become unconscious of others and their pain and suffering. In Greek, we say of the immoral /inhumane person, they are unconscious.. not having any consciousness and thus any regard for others and how they are affected.

We take distance from dark souls for our protection.. yes!
But God does not spread the darkness over everyone because the person, who does evil, is solely to blame for their own darkness, which they created by deadening their conscience and thus having no remorse for their actions and no empathy.

God does not blame all for any evil or even wrong doing that is done.
God gives to those who have. That is gives more awakening to those who have retained their level of consciousness by following their moral compass and keeping their conscience clean. That is acknowledging wrong doing, having remorse and a change of heart and seeking to make amends.

God takes away from those who have not. That is darkens further those who have deadened their conscience and act in hate.

Adam and Eve sin can only be called ancestral sin. It is not smeared over everyone. This is again interpretation, which seeks to manipulate and control others. Adam and Eve acted arrogantly and did not admit they were in the wrong.

BTW snakes can talk to humans. I live in a forest and originally had a tree partly inside my back veranda. One day I walked along past the tree and stopped at the balustrade to look out and I had someone mentally address me. You could say it was telepathy.

I looked around and there was no one there. Strange! Then I looked at the tree trunk and saw a night tiger, who had stopped on his way up the tree and was looking intently at me. I couldn't believe it. I said "yes i respect you" and with that he must have felt at ease because he stopped looking intently at me and continued his way up the vine that was wrapped around the tree.

Someone on another forum told me that snakes talk but not audibly. He called it Parseltongue, but it turned out to be something out of Harry Potter. Lol.

I have to wonder though, did Eve also have a similar experience? We can communicate with other life forms through direct mental perception of meaning. This is not the only case I have experienced. I think that what happened is that I would have interpreted the meaning in the Mind and thus perceived that meaning in language in the Mind.
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11-09-2017, 08:47 AM
Post: #7
RE: Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?
Interesting. Thanks.

I did want to answer to this.

"BUT if the serpent was to the Jews a good entity, why did following its advice got them out of the Garden of Eden and into a world of toil and trouble?"

A good analogy would be that the tree of the knowledge of basically everything is like our school system today.

Eden is a coming of age yarn, and like our schools, when you graduate, you get to work applying what you have learned.

In the yarn, when God says, --- they have become like Gods, --- it is equivalent to saying that they have earned their degree and have grown up. Adults do not remain in school after they have passed their courses.

Regards
DL
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11-13-2017, 07:56 AM
Post: #8
RE: Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?
(11-09-2017 08:47 AM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote:  Interesting. Thanks.

I did want to answer to this.

"BUT if the serpent was to the Jews a good entity, why did following its advice got them out of the Garden of Eden and into a world of toil and trouble?"

A good analogy would be that the tree of the knowledge of basically everything is like our school system today.

Eden is a coming of age yarn, and like our schools, when you graduate, you get to work applying what you have learned.

In the yarn, when God says, --- they have become like Gods, --- it is equivalent to saying that they have earned their degree and have grown up. Adults do not remain in school after they have passed their courses.

Regards
DL

Hi Gnostic,
I thought about it over the last two day, but I don't find your explanation makes sense to me because they got punished and so did the snake.
It could be that this tale is just like many other tales in the Bible, which are aimed to confuse or mislead, in my opinion.

For instance Cain killed Able out of jealousy. It was premeditated and he must have had a dead conscience to do so because he was only worried about himself later. And God gave him a guarantee he'd be safe. This sound very, very fishy to me.

God has not set up rules of Justice and Righteousness within the information that is foundational to the creation of this Universe, only to help those that act immorally and unethically. It's bull.

The only way that I can make sense of why Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden is because they did not take responsibility for the wrongdoing and seek forgiveness. They both blamed someone else.
Kyrani
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