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Can you accept that Man is greater than God?
#1
Can you accept that Man is greater than God?
We can think. God cannot.
We can reproduce true. God cannot.
We can have many children. God cannot.
We place the lives of our wives and families above our own. God does not.
We would cure instead of kill. God kills.
We do not torture babies. God does.
We believe in freedom. God does not.
Jesus does which is why he took the judgement seat from His Father.
You can continue to adore a God inferior to you, both intellectually and morally, or become a Gnostic Christian or Karaite Jew like Jesus was. Jesus the Good as the Chrestians used to call him before Christianity reared it’s ugly head by reading their myths literally and embrace their God of War.
Islam would be a better religion today if that had not forced Mohammad to change from a loving God to a God or War so as to fight fire with fire.
Thanks Christians for Islam. Pardon the digression.
Jesus shows the way with his advice to seek God by closeting yourself.
Are you ready to follow Jesus or will you stick with your lying priests, preachers, Rabbi’s and Imams?

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesf...r_embedded

Regards
DL
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#2
Nope I can't. It's not possible.
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#3
(10-06-2017, 09:10 AM)Jinshing Wrote: Nope I can't. It's not possible.

Yet you do not attempt to refute what I put.

Take the moral argument. Yahweh is shown to kill quite often when he could just as easily cure.

You would likely take the moral high ground and cure instead of kill. Right?

That would make your morals better than Yahweh's. Right?

Regards
DL





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#4
(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?
No, I absolutely reject this.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We can think. God cannot.
Sorry but I reject this too.
I believe that God upheld the ideas/ information by the Divine Consciousness in the Mind of God and thus brought / thought this and all other Universes into being! We, as conscious beings, live embodied within God's creation, which is born of Divine Thought/ the idea/ Logos.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We can reproduce true. God cannot.
In truth we cannot reproduce. No conscious being can reproduce itself. We can reproduce embodiments for other conscious being, who desire to or require to reincarnate within this creation.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We can have many children. God cannot.

I disagree here too. God created all conscious beings, made in His likeness, i.e., consciousness. I woiuld say all living beings are children of God.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We place the lives of our wives and families above our own. God does not.
We would cure instead of kill. God kills.

God places those who are good (humane) in the high position and not simply because they are related in some way. I was born into an evil family. There is no way that I would place them above myself or any other humane person or even animal or plant, including the planet.

Medicine today is not about cure but lucrative "everlasting" treatments and many of them kill.

Too much has been attributed to God, which corrupt leaders, whether political or religious, want to do but not be seen doing.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We do not torture babies. God does.

I reject this as well. God does not torment anyone, let alone babies. Evil humans torture babies.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We believe in freedom. God does not.

Sorry I am really sorry.... but this one makes me laugh. We hardly live in freedom. We think we do, but the leader we vote for look good while they want our vote and as soon as they get in their dark shades appear over their peepers. You only got to look at how much freedom and rights have been robbed by the Patriot Acts around the world as a result of 911.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: Jesus does which is why he took the judgement seat from His Father.

Jesus did not take any Judgement seat from 'His Father', i.e., God. We have been given free will.

Those who live by their conscience, are empathetic and do good works, will maintain their high level of consciousness, and to them shall be given more.

Those, who deaden their conscience and thus reduce their consciousness, from them shall be taken even the little they have left.

God judges us based on what we do and how we, through our own free will, have acted, and thus God acts accordingly.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: You can continue to adore a God inferior to you, both intellectually and morally, or become a Gnostic Christian or Karaite Jew like Jesus was. Jesus the Good as the Chrestians used to call him before Christianity reared it’s ugly head by reading their myths literally and embrace their God of War.

I know that God is Good. As Jesus himself said, only God is Good!
I have read and very much like the Gnostic texts, e.g., The Gospel of Thomas, but I don't think they are to be understood as literal sayings.To me they are like the koans we studied in Zen Buddhism. They challenge our intellectual thinking and force us to grasp the truth, in a spiritual sense.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: Islam would be a better religion today if that had not forced Mohammad to change from a loving God to a God or War so as to fight fire with fire.
Thanks Christians for Islam. Pardon the digression.

I think Mohammad was right that there are occasions where one has to go to war. One has a right to defend oneself, loved ones, property and country from aggression and oppression AND one has a right to fight for Righteousness/ Justice. Not the man made variety.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: Jesus shows the way with his advice to seek God by closeting yourself.
Are you ready to follow Jesus or will you stick with your lying priests, preachers, Rabbi’s and Imams?

I think that Jesus gave excellent teachings but there have been a lot of words put in his mouth as well. And love the enemy, do good to those that harm you, turn the other cheek and forgive all and sundries indiscriminately, are NOT amongst Jesus's teachings. These are Roman corruption, done one way or the other.

But I agree with you that following priests and preachers and Rabbis and Imams etc., is not the way. I also think that most of them are power mongers and liars.

I would rather at this point highlight the quote "I am my father are one". Everyone, who has gained sufficient awakening/ enlightenment, can say the same. It is a statement of Union with God. One doesn't become God as some people think. One is merged into the Divine Spirit. So that the consciousness of which we were made, i.e., the Divine, is raised so as to become one with the Divine.

This is what is being denied in Christianity. They believe that they will also be resurrected and get new bodies, which will be immortal and thus go to Heaven and live eternal life. And that they get that for free, if they believe that Jesus is God. I reject this. I think the only way is through being good and doing good works, being empathetic and helping those in need and who are humane.
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#5
Kyrani99

You have cherry picked the bible so much that you have made up your own version of God.

Allow me to do some cherry picking as well.

You wrote.
"God does not torment anyone, let alone babies."

Are you aware of and do you believe the story of King David?

It shows God torturing and killing the King's baby because of his anger with David.

Do you ignore or disbelieve that story?

How about the flood of Noah's day.
Did that happen and is drowning many innocent babies and children torment in your view?

Regards
DL
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#6
(11-05-2017, 05:11 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: Kyrani99

You have cherry picked the bible so much that you have made up your own version of God.

Allow me to do some cherry picking as well.

You wrote.
"God does not torment anyone, let alone babies."

Are you aware of and do you believe the story of King David?

It shows God torturing and killing the King's baby because of his anger with David.

Do you ignore or disbelieve that story?

How about the flood of Noah's day.
Did that happen and is drowning many innocent babies and children torment in your view?

Regards
DL

I should have said that I don't take my belief and understanding of God from the Bible. I see a lot of corruption in all religious texts and not only the Bible.

You are right that if we are to take the Bible as the literal word of God then there is the torture of babies. But there is also another way to think about it. The body is only a garment, which we wear for a time. We shed one body and take on another. So it becomes a matter of what you consider to be the "I" that is our true identity. If spirit, then killing, destroying bodies doesn't equate to torturing.

Sure, the conscious being, which while embodied, identifies with the body, does suffer. However in abandoning the body and passing over, one leaves suffering behind and enters bliss (if he or she is humane, otherwise they enter oblivion).

As a Gnostic, you have direct knowledge of God, outside of any and all scriptures. This is similar to why, when Jesus was asked by Pontius Pilate, "what is truth", Jesus remained silent.It cannot be known intellectually nor written about. Same with God.
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#7
Thanks for clearing up your view of God.

You have a lot of assumptions though, like reincarnation, and hope you can prove some of them some time.

Regards
DL
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#8
(11-07-2017, 11:21 AM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: Thanks for clearing up your view of God.

You have a lot of assumptions though, like reincarnation, and hope you can prove some of them some time.

Regards
DL

It would be nice to be able to exchange notes about our experiences in ways that gave evidence to the other person but that is not possible. I can only say that I have had 12 other past lives on this planet that I can remember. I don't recall them all very well and even those that I do recollect, I can only recollect some impressive events and nothing more. But I can't prove any of this to you.. wish I could.

How i see our spiritual journey, is that we travel in a sense alone because we are all at different parts of our journey. And not all people are travelling in the same direction. Some travel to the light/ God and others are going the other way.

I think that organised religion, though it has some serious draw backs, like unscrupulous people seeking to exercise power over others and cause conflicts, still has many benefits. Belonging to some religious group helps give encouragement when the chips are down. So people associate with other who have broadly the same beliefs or who see the beliefs in the religion and they resonate with their own.

My guru (Yoga-Hinduism) once said that there are as many religions on Earth as there are people. I think she was right because each person, owing to their different level of spiritual development, has a unique understanding. All who travel on the spiritual path to God are equals. None are better than others. Their different levels of development is not a discriminating factor. All who travel to God, no matter what stage on their own unique path, are children of God.. equals.

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#9
Yep. We all create our own God's.

As a Gnostic Christian, I have no objection but just hope they are more moral than the mainstream pricks like Yahweh and Allah.

Regards
DL
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#10
I will answer each of those points on this premise: God either exists or he does not.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: Can you accept that Man is greater than God?
We can think. God cannot.

If God doesn't exist, then God cannot think, you are right. Man is greater.
If God does exist and cannot think, then we cannot hold him to a moral standard. Someone is only morally culpable, if they are aware of the immorality of their actions, and commit to them anyways.
As you DO hold God to a moral standard, God CAN think. God is at par with man.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We can reproduce true. God cannot.

If God doesn't exist, then no he cannot reproduce. Man is greater.
If God does exist, we must examine reproduction. When we reproduce a set of deterministic factors remove the control that we have over the outcome of our offspring. This could lead to any number of genetic deformities and maladies. God can create life, which is different from reproduction, as he has total control over the life he chooses to create. God is greater.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We can have many children. God cannot.

If God doesn't exist, then no He can't. God is greater. Seriously, the fact that you can have "many children" shows just how stupid the world is to reproduce to a point where the planet and the parents cannot sustain their families. God not even existing is better than we are.
If God does exist, creation vs reproduction takes place again, and God wins in that category. With no control over the number and quality of our offspring, God is better.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We place the lives of our wives and families above our own. God does not.

If God doesn't exist, God cannot prioritize thusly. However, not everyone chooses their wives and families above their own. Look to the statistics to see the number of single mothers, welfare-children, and history in general. Even if God doesn't exist, we lose to ourselves in this category.
If God does exist, you cannot assume His priorities. You can't guess the thoughts and priorities of your neighbour or wife, let alone a divine being. If everyone was able to see the world from the perspective of another, we would have infinitely less conflict. God is equal to us, at least.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We would cure instead of kill. God kills.

If God doesn't exist, he can't kill. God is greater, because we DO kill. Every day. Both discriminately and indiscriminately. Through hate and love. God is greater.
If God does exist, He still hasn't killed. Any story you could point to either has a man killing in His name, or an otherworldly being killing people and man attributing it to His name. Your claim in unfounded. God is greater.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We do not torture babies. God does.

Now we're getting ridiculous...but I'll humour you.
If God doesn't exist, He cannot torture babies. Unfortunately, we can and do. Look at the news. God is greater (even without existing).
If God does exist, there are verses that describe God showing himself as a tiny speck over the horizon by a mountain, and it nearly killed a man. I find the direct influence of God, to torture a baby, laughable because of this. It is a ridiculous notion that doesn't follow how the events would unfold: God appears so as to torture baby. The entire region bursts into flame and dies...God is mightier.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: We believe in freedom. God does not.

If God doesn't exist, He can't believe in freedom. Man is greater.
If God does exist, your claim is unfounded. God, having created man-kind, left us with the freedom of choice. This freedom is the single greatest gift that man-kind could hold. It gives you your right and ability to say stupid things like: We do not torture babies. God does.
So important is the concept of freedom, that you need to choose to freely believe in God and Jesus, and love them both for acceptance into heaven. Thus, you are wrong. God is greater.

(08-17-2017, 08:56 PM)Enemy No. 1 Gnostic Wrote: Jesus does which is why he took the judgement seat from His Father.

If Jesus took the judgement seat from His father, it is because He took responsibility for the actions of every generation and future generation of person. Your general manager at McDonald's gets in trouble with the upper-brass, because his subordinates are his responsibility. The upper-brass don't care about the underlings, it just means they haven't been trained properly or fired for being sub-par. The GM then passes judgement on their staff, as to who gets to stay a part of this McDick family. See what I mean?
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