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God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?
#21
I KNEW IT!!!  I FRIGGIN' KNEW IT!


You had a citation in you.  I’ve bin trying to draw it out and… bang!  There you go!

Here’s the thing.  I don’t disagree with you calling people out for their behavior.  I call you out all the time.  But, yr citation was half of a sentence.  Granted, the other half wasn't necessary to make yr point, but you have to take the whole paragraph into consideration.  For instance, we are urged in Thessalonians to ‘admonish the idlers’ but also ‘help the weak’ and, certainly, ‘be patient with all of them.’

I admit, you’ve totally got the admonishing part down.  Not so much the part about being patient.  And these people you think are somehow foolish for their beliefs?  Maybe take a different angle and consider them weak.  They need yr guidance, not yr scorn.

If you want people to listen to you, treat them kindly.  Few people listen to those who are rude to them.
 
(Citation for above):  1 Thessalonians 5: 12-22

Oh, and side thought… I think yr underestimating the worth of ‘books of fantasy.’  Parables, poetry and fiction can contain quite a bit of wisdom.  Candide gave us ‘the grass is always greener on the other side’ and ‘tend yr own garden.’  Machiavelli’s most famous work had chapters discussing things like whether or not it is better for a ruler to be feared or loved.  Even the Lord of the Rings trilogy and it’s Counterpart, The Chronicles of Narnia, were an exploration into Christian belief… the first subtle, the latter overt.

Suppose all these ‘holy books’ are too dense for me, and I prefer comic books.  And Spider-Man, he struggles at times, but he always seems to make the right choice.  And I struggle at times, but I know that I can be strong… like Spider-Man.  And so, at the end of the day, I always find the strength to do the right thing.  How is it anyone’s place to judge me on that?

Incidentally, no… that wasn’t a real-life anecdote.  I’m much more of a Scarlett Witch sort of girl…

Angel WIngs
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#22
(07-20-2018, 05:55 PM)Mika Wrote: I KNEW IT!!!  I FRIGGIN' KNEW IT!


You had a citation in you.  I’ve bin trying to draw it out and… bang!  There you go!

Here’s the thing.  I don’t disagree with you calling people out for their behavior.  I call you out all the time.  But, yr citation was half of a sentence.  Granted, the other half wasn't necessary to make yr point, but you have to take the whole paragraph into consideration.  For instance, we are urged in Thessalonians to ‘admonish the idlers’ but also ‘help the weak’ and, certainly, ‘be patient with all of them.’

I admit, you’ve totally got the admonishing part down.  Not so much the part about being patient.  And these people you think are somehow foolish for their beliefs?  Maybe take a different angle and consider them weak.  They need yr guidance, not yr scorn.

If you want people to listen to you, treat them kindly.  Few people listen to those who are rude to them.
 
(Citation for above):  1 Thessalonians 5: 12-22

Oh, and side thought… I think yr underestimating the worth of ‘books of fantasy.’  Parables, poetry and fiction can contain quite a bit of wisdom.  Candide gave us ‘the grass is always greener on the other side’ and ‘tend yr own garden.’  Machiavelli’s most famous work had chapters discussing things like whether or not it is better for a ruler to be feared or loved.  Even the Lord of the Rings trilogy and it’s Counterpart, The Chronicles of Narnia, were an exploration into Christian belief… the first subtle, the latter overt.

Suppose all these ‘holy books’ are too dense for me, and I prefer comic books.  And Spider-Man, he struggles at times, but he always seems to make the right choice.  And I struggle at times, but I know that I can be strong… like Spider-Man.  And so, at the end of the day, I always find the strength to do the right thing.  How is it anyone’s place to judge me on that?

Incidentally, no… that wasn’t a real-life anecdote.  I’m much more of a Scarlett Witch sort of girl…

Angel WIngs

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Come back when your mind is not so small and you are not talking just to hear yourself.

Regards
DL
[-] The following 1 user says Thank You to Enemy No. 1 Gnostic for this post:
  • Aboom
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#23
I do believe yr missing a part of the quote.  No small surprise, as yr previous bible citation was totally taken out of context.  But I believe the proper quotation would be:


‘Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people; closed minds talk to themselves.’

My mind might be small, in yr estimation.  I’ll let you guess where yr mind falls, in mine.

If we’re doing the ‘random quote’ thingie, I’ve got one for you.  Because, of course, if someone famous said it, it must be true…

‘Whatever you are, be a great one.’  Abraham Lincoln.

And I have to hand it to you, Enemies… you are what you are.  And I think we can all agree that yr a great ______.  

I was trying to play nice.  I even complimented you, in this and other posts.  And yr response was to quote said compliment and then insult me.

I totally get it.  Boy crushes on girl.  Girl isn’t interested.  Boy pulls girls hair in math class.  Age old story…

Angel WIngs
 
Incidentally, I believe I have a lovely voice.  I'll talk to hear the sound of it as much as I want, thank you very much...
 
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#24
I have a question: does God have to be gender specific? What about religions who are matriarchal-based? The Earth Goddess, Mother Gaia, Tara, Kwan Yin etc? Just curious.

It seems to me that an omniscience and omnipotent being will not be bound by the mere physical constraints of gender. God, the Divine, the Supreme Being, the Creator of the Universe simply is and always will be.

Regarding the question of God's parenting skills. Well, there remains the subject of free will. That means we are all equipped with the knowledge and guidance from the heavenly books, wise teachings of the Saints, Sages from all the Ages - they are here to help us do our own thing.

There are actions and consequences. There's no bleating that "The Devil made me do it", or "I had a deprived childhood". [*sigh*] Free will, remember? We all have to take responsibility for our own decisions and subsequent actions.
Perhaps God is still trying to get through to us all. But are we listening? Icontexto-emoticons-04-032x032
There's life...and then there's the afterlife.
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#25
(08-09-2018, 10:36 AM)Jadeite Wrote: I have a question: does God have to be gender specific? What about religions who are matriarchal-based? The Earth Goddess, Mother Gaia, Tara, Kwan Yin etc? Just curious.

It seems to me that an omniscience and omnipotent being will not be bound by the mere physical constraints of gender. God, the Divine, the Supreme Being, the Creator of the Universe simply is and always will be.

Regarding the question of God's parenting skills. Well, there remains the subject of free will. That means we are all equipped with the knowledge and guidance from the heavenly books, wise teachings of the Saints, Sages from all the Ages - they are here to help us do our own thing.

There are actions and consequences. There's no bleating that "The Devil made me do it", or "I had a deprived childhood". [*sigh*] Free will, remember? We all have to take responsibility for our own decisions and subsequent actions.
Perhaps God is still trying to get through to us all. But are we listening? Icontexto-emoticons-04-032x032

If a god cannot make himself heard, then why call it God?

I agree with parenting free will.

I do not see your conclusion to the main O.P. question.

Care to give us your judgement?

Regards
DL
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#26
One thing you have to understand, Jadeite, when talking to Enemy is that he has a very specific, very archaic ‘God’ in mind when he poses these questions.  Not a Christian God or even a proper Jewish one, and certainly not an Islamic one.  So… the concept of Mother Gaia or Green Tara is somewhat outside the scope of his interests.


I assume.  I can’t speak for the guy, but that is the impression I get. (All due respect, Enemies, correct me if I’m wrong.)

But to answer yr question… even from a Christian perspective, there is no concrete evidence that God has a definitive gender.  Certainly, Jesus the Son was male, as there is historical, non-biblical evidence of the man and his followers.  But God Himself? 

Too many people simply take modern day translations of the bible… or worse, the King James manipulation of it… at face value.  Even if you take the NIV translation of the bible, it is still no more than an effort of a group of scholars trying to accurately convey the meaning of words written 2000 years ago in multiple ancient languages.  It is all open to interpretation, to some degree.

For instance, in ancient Hebrew, there are no gender-neutral pronouns.  There is no equivalent of ‘it.’  Everything, from people to boats to goats to… why not… oats… everything in ancient Hebrew is forced into a category of ‘he’ or ‘she.’  Considering the fact that the bible was written during a time of patriarchy, it’s a no-brainer as to which gender would be assigned to their God.  But nowhere in scripture is His gender directly addressed.

And, really, it would be kinda weird if it was.  I mean, imagine a bible that talks about God’s facial hair or His genitals.  Or one that made reference to His wife.  Seriously, what do you give to God on yr 3000th anniversary?  What does He give you?

Personally, I would expect a necklace made out of the rings around Saturn, but then, I’ve always bin a romantic…  

Sponge-bob3

There is also scripture to suggest that God is, in fact, gender neutral.  Adam was made in God’s own image and Eve was created from Adam’s rib, but Eve was Adam’s second wife.  His first wife was Lilith, who was created in the same way as Adam… in God’s own image.  It was only after Lilith scorned Adam and his sexist ways that God created Eve as a half measure, both to keep the peace and perpetuate the human race.  But the take-away is that ‘in God’s own image’ refers to both male and female, both Adam and Lilith.
 
I am a Christian.  It’s how I was raised as a child and it’s the belief system I most easily relate to.  That being said, in my mind and in other formats, I rarely use the term ‘God.’  More often, I say ‘Goddess’ or type ‘God(dess,)’ to be respectful of people with different feelings on the matter.  Here, I often take the standard, patriarchal form of ‘God’ so as not to cloud the issue we are discussing.  But that doesn’t mean I feel ‘God’ is male. 

As I see it, the Holy Trinity can be summed up this way… women are the ones who give birth, who create life, so God(dess) is obviously female.  Jesus, the Son who saves us, is obviously male, historically proven.  And the Holy Ghost, that which gives us our soul and free will, is gender neutral.  It’s all neatly boxed off, with no one gender… or lack thereof…  prominent over another.
 
Now, a moment to respond to my good friend Enemies…
 
I’m not entirely certain how to say this without seeming to pick a fight… which I honestly am not… but Enemies, you kinda contradict yrself in the first two sentences of yr response to Jadeite.

“If a god cannot make himself heard, then why call it God?”

“I agree with parenting free will.”

Well, which is it?  Do you expect God to make His will known and then rain down judgment if we choose to ignore it, old skool Pillar of Salt style?  Or do you expect Him to give us the freedom to ignore his words and make our own path, like a proper Christian?  ‘Cos free will doesn't exist if you are too frightened to exercise it.  At the same time, free will doesn't mean freedom from judgment... just judgment at a later date.  That gives us time to weigh our options.


At some point, any good and loving parent will let their children make their own mistakes and suffer the consequences.  It's the only way a child can learn.  God gives you advice in every decision you make.  He makes himself heard.  It's called yr conscience.  And then, He gives you the freedom to ignore that advice.

Icontexto-emoticons-08-032x032
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#27
Mika

From what I can see, the ancients, before stupid literal reading of myths began, thought about God in two basic ways.

One way was, as most of the Eastern gods were thought of, was to have them be androgynous. That would include the Jewish god. The second way was as this quote indicates which is what Gnostic Christians think.  

If you can't see God in all, you can't see God at all. -Anon

This link, start her up at the 10 min. mark, will give you the Hebrew definitions and they show that Yahweh was thought to be androgynous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TndLzFZI9A

Regards
DL
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#28
You really can’t help yrself, can you, Enemies?  You came so close.  All you had to do was leave out that one little word… ‘stupid.’  Everything you wanted to express would have been expressed in a respectful, almost academic manner.  Instead, you decided to alienate a good portion of the audience in yr first sentence.  You can’t change minds by insulting the people who disagree with you.  But then, I suppose it’s a matter of where yr priorities lie.  Do you want to win people over to yr beliefs?  Or simply look down on those who disagree with you?  Near as I can tell, it might be a bit of both… but only you can decide which is more important.

Anyhoo, thanks for the link.  I watched (what I figured) was the relevant portion and found it quite interesting.  Bonus points for addressing other religions, besides Christianity.  I don’t suppose it’s available in book format?  Or transcript?  ‘cos what little I watched was definitely interesting, but I’m flighty and don’t have the attention span for a 75-minute Youtube reading.  Still, if I had a hard copy I could sit under a tree with, I would totally read the whole thing…

Bandana
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#29
 

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

Grow your little mind or refute the premise but do stop being so childish.

Regards
DL
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#30
Could you please explain what, exactly, in my reply gives you the impression that I have a ‘little mind?’

Is it the fact that I prefer to read over material, rather than listen to a Youtube tutorial?  Or is it the fact that I can manage to write a complete post without insulting someone whose opinions I deem… not as evolved… as my own?

Or, is it simply the fact that I make my arguments with my own words, rather than simply quoting someone both more intelligent and more famous than myself? 

I should say ‘requoting,’ to be more accurate, as you already used that Eleanor Roosevelt line against me.  In this very thread.  I s’pose my ‘little mind’ has debated you to the point where you have nothing left but to repeat yrself…

Icontexto-emoticons-08-032x032

However large or small my mind might be, at least it is open.  I’d rather live in a tiny, open aired garden than an expansive prison.  A prison gives you walls and boundaries and wander as you might, nothing new gets in or out.  But a tiny garden out back, with the wind blowing through my hair and the birds singing to me each morning and the crickets playing their songs for me each night… confined as I might be, you never know what might blow into my tiny refuge, or what bird might make a visit and sing me a new song.  Or what notion or idea might be carried off with the wind and the birds and the crickets. 

“Understanding is a two-way street.”  - Eleanor Roosevelt

Here’s the difference between yr mind and mine own, Enemies.  I treat you with respect.  More often than not, anyways, and I’ve (publicly) apologized when I felt I crossed the line.  I try to engage you.  I seek an exchange of ideas with someone who I don’t often agree with.  You simply spout off yr ideas like President Trump on a drunken tweet rampage at 3am and insult anyone who doesn’t fawn over you for yr wisdom… even when they’re being polite and thanking you for yr post.

Which I did, incidentally.  Thank you for yr link.  I always was a trail blazer, and, after 143 posts, someone finally thanked you for yr words.  Me.  Childish, small minded Mika.  And I suppose it makes sense, in the grand scheme of things.  No intelligent adult could possibly look at the near 150 posts you’ve written and say… ‘You know, I truly appreciate what this guy has to say.  I should thank him.’  That only happens in daydreams and delusions of grandeur.  If it happened otherwise, it would have... over the past year...



Still, I have to wonder... if the only one who appreciates yr posts is a, in yr estimation, small minded child... what does that have to say about yr posts?

As to refuting the premise, I already did that…in my first response to this thread, well over a month ago.  I imagine the prison guards to that closed mind of yrs confiscated my response as contraband and you never saw it.  I’ll sum it up for you.


The fact that you find God(dess) absent in yr life does not mean the rest of us do.  Maybe yr just too focused on yr smallness… of mind or otherwise… to notice the love and beauty all around you, and in yr inability to appreciate other people’s opinions, you assume everyone must feel the same way.

The fact that you, a (figurative) child, disagree with yr Goddess’ parenting skills is not a sign of an abusive parent.  Rather, perhaps it’s the sign of a spoiled rotten child who has gotten away with far too much and is far too privileged.  So much so that he views anyone with different experiences as ‘lesser.'

Perhaps God(dess) is neither absent nor abusive.  Perhaps yr just a spoiled arse baby who cries whenever he doesn't get what he wants.

One last thing… stop it with the Yahweh nonsense.  It makes you appear the clown.  No one… and I mean Jew, Christian or Muslim… no one uses that term in modern times.  ‘Ha-shem’ or ‘Allah’ or simply ‘God’ will suffice.  YHWH is, like, two millennia out of style, and "Yahweh" is total poseur lingo. 

Icontexto-emoticons-06-032x032
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