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God; a good father or a deadbeat dad. Which is the truth?
#11
Well written, Mika.

Get ready for a cherry picked unrelated twisting of your words though.
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#12
Rolleyes 
Nah, he doesn’t have the giblets…   Blueud
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#13
*One week later*

Elegantly drops the mic…  

; )
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#14
Lmao
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#15
Wow..............
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#16
It occurs to me that, in my self-indulgent gesture of ‘dropping the mic,’ I may have given people the impression that I considered the matter closed.  Mind you, I’m not certain why anyone would actually care if I considered the matter closed, but that’s an entirely other issue.  The last thing I want to do is stifle debate.


What I do care about are loaded phrases and insults.  So, when someone calls Islam is an uncivilized religion… or implies that Fundamentalist Christians have a ‘brain dead literal’ understanding of the bible and are ‘foolish,’ I’m gonna call that person out.  I have a couple Muslim friends and while I’m far from a fundamentalist, I do have one friend who is an ordained, Pentecostal minister.  And while we disagree on… like, everything and a half when it comes to our respective readings of the bible... she would never sink so low as to call someone else’s opinions brain dead or foolish. 

That being said, I was probably a bit more harsh than I needed to be.  What can I say?  I’m Scots-Irish and have a temper.  Still, it wasn’t very Christian of me and I thought I’d take a moment to apologize to anyone, including Enemy, who might have felt like I was trying to shut down debate.

My citation was actually a challenge and I’m a little surprised that no one caught it.  I mean, I realize that most other people don’t have their favorite copy of the bible sitting on their desk, but there’s always Google.
Romans 7:5-6… er, 4-6 really.  I shouldn’t post when I’m angry.

Oopsie  ; )

‘In the same way, my friends, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God.  While we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death.  But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are slaves not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit.’

Basically, to my eyes, it’s Paul explaining how… through Jesus’ sacrifice… we can move on past the days of vengeance and pillars of salt.  He took that burden on Himself so that God could be the good and loving father he was meant to be.

Now… you can disagree with my reading of the text.  But first, I expect you to read the text.  Actually, I’d advise on reading the entire Book of Romans.  You might be surprised in what you find there.  Alternately, you can cite yr own scripture, which I will promptly read.  But you can’t talk God without actually picking up a bible.  It is far too dense and complex a book for bullet points.

Honestly, I consider this an interesting question, once you get rid of the loaded phrasing and assumed premises.  Neil DeGrasse Tyson sums it up quite elegantly…



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#17
(06-29-2018, 06:27 PM)Mika Wrote: The problem with this sort of ‘Amateur Philosophy 101’ is that it typically ignores half of the ‘God as Father’ equation… specifically, the part of the analogy where we are His children.  Not grown, adult offspring who can claim an equal footing.  Children.  Think of it as a scale… God’s level of wisdom, compared to a grown human, would be something like a grown man’s level of wisdom compared to that of a three-year-old.  So, to ask us if God is a ‘deadbeat dad’ is pretty much akin to asking a three-year-old if her forty-year-old father is a big meanie for making her put down her toy and take a nap.

I’m also a bit confused as to who, exactly, yr target audience is with this post.  I’m assuming it isn’t Christians, as most devout Christians would likely say they do not feel their God is, in any way, absent.  Heck, I talk to God every day and I’m not exactly what you would call a ‘church going’ sort of individual.  Most Christians and Muslims I know would say that God is all around you and if you, personally, don’t see Him… well, maybe yr just not looking.  It’s not unheard of for a kid to be so caught up in her fancy new X-Station or Play-Box to lose focus and forget about the parent nagging her to clean her room…

So, to whom are you posing this question?  Based on the scripture you (don’t actually) cite and based on the concept of God you’ve shown in this and other posts, you don’t seem to be talking about a Christian God… and you don’t (not) cite the Quran, so we can safely rule out an Islamic God.  What yr really talking about is the so-called ‘vengeful’ God of the Old Testament.

This is an important distinction.  After all, there are well over 2 billion Christians on this planet and nearly 2 billion Muslims.  In contrast, there are just 14 million followers of Judaism.  No disrespect intended to my Jewish friends out there, of course, but for context… of all the people who hold faith with the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God, for every one that prays to the God of the Old Testament, there are about 150 who pray to the God of the Quran and 180 who pray to the God of the New Testament.

Basically, yr cherry picking examples from a minority opinion and, not only attributing it to the majority, but... even worse, distorting it.  The God of the Old Testament is not only a Father but a King and, therefore, required to mete out justice.  By definition, He is required to be harsh at times.  So, if you want a debate on whether or not the God of the Old Testament was more harsh than fair, cools.  I need to brush up on my OT anyway.  But let’s not pretend that, just because some guy once told you that, whatever… God condoned slavery and hates on homosexuals… that you’ve actually read the bible.  In it’s entirety.  Taken in context.

You clearly haven’t.

Oh, and Romans 7: 5-6.  It’s called citation.  If you want to be taken seriously, you might try it someday...

8 )
 
Written like a 3 year old.

They, like you, cannot make value judgements.

Regards
DL
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#18
LMAO! My favourite part is when he said nothing, in relation to the conversation. Now, he's going to go pout in another thread. xD I gotta read that one.
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#19
Regarding value judgments…

Matthew 7:  4-5

‘Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye?  Or how can you say to your neighbor, let me take the speck out of your eye, while the log is in your own eye.’

Sigh… I thought we went over this…   
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#20
(07-19-2018, 08:38 PM)Mika Wrote: Regarding value judgments…

Matthew 7:  4-5

‘Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye?  Or how can you say to your neighbor, let me take the speck out of your eye, while the log is in your own eye.’

Sigh… I thought we went over this…   

Are these not telling you to make value judgements?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

If you let a book of fantasy do your moral thinking for you, then go ahead and follow a genocidal son murdering God.

Regards
DL
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