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NDEs and ADCs: Awesome Verifications
05-31-2017, 06:46 AM
Post: #11
RE: NDEs and ADCs: Awesome Verifications
(05-30-2017 06:32 PM)Deadworm Wrote:  As a published professor and researcher, I'm probably more familiar with such irrelevant scientific allusions than you are. I'm presenting evidence that modern science is not even remotely capable of explaining. And you and your ilk will do practically anything to avoid doing the hard work of honest and open critical engagement with new evidence. Now feel the fear and actually watch my 2 videos that refute your bogus" "scientific" cop-out.

And there it is ... try and impress us with telling us how smart you are. Then posting if you do not get the results you are looking for here you will move on.
Personal experiences are proof of nothing. Where testing explains what happens. People calling on scientists to be "more open minded" are overlooking the fact that science is, by the very nature of its enquiry, open minded. NDE's do not prove that there is an after life. They simply prove that a vivid and transcendental EXPERIENCE occurs in some (not all) patients in a near death situation.

As you make your leaps of faith, it's perfectly reasonable to ask science to take the accounts of NDE's seriously, you cannot blame the scientific method for not jumping to the same conclusions you have about what these experiences actually mean in terms of where we go after death.

The human brain is proven to have vivid hallucination, especially when under severe trauma or during "shutdown". If there was a place we magically go after death then it shouldn't vary by location and beliefs.


Belief bias occurs when we make illogical conclusions in order to confirm our preexisting beliefs. Belief perseverance refers to our tendency to maintain a belief even after the evidence we used to form the belief is contradicted.
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05-31-2017, 12:45 PM (This post was last modified: 05-31-2017 12:46 PM by Deadworm.)
Post: #12
RE: NDEs and ADCs: Awesome Verifications
UglyNRude,

During the 19th century Great Awakening in America, a skeptic was drawn to George Whtefield's preaching to mass audiences. Perched in a tree to see better, the skeptic quickly became irritated by what he was hearing and put his fingers in his ears--until flies buzzing around his head so annoyed him that he removed his fingers from his ears to swat them away. But unfortunately for him, this meant that he heard much of Whitefield's sermon and fell under conviction of his sin so powerfully that he was marvelously converted.

You no doubt have the ability to read; so I must conclude that your template talking points have blinded you to what I say in my posts. The flies buzzing around your head are the 2 posted videos on shared NDEs, but unlike the skeptic in the tree, you choose not to swat them away by watching them because you would then realize that they edner your video (which I watched) irrelevant. Let me repeat for the 3rd time: I'm talking about NDEs experienced by healthy visitors to the bedside of the seriously ill patient, who experiences the same NDE, thus providing independent corroboration of its reality.
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05-31-2017, 09:34 PM
Post: #13
RE: NDEs and ADCs: Awesome Verifications
(2c) Here is a very unique shared NDE. Albert Baldeo was a friend of my Uncle Larry. Perhaps he was also the most universally respected pastor in Kelowna, BC, Canada--so well respected that he was given a weekly column in the local newspaper. In one column he shared this shared NDE, an NDE which I confirmed in a private conversation with him. Albert died a few years ago.

Albert's father lay dying in a nursing home. Suddenly he sat up, gazed intently at some invisible person, and shouted, "Hurry up, brother! Hurry up!" Within a few seconds he passed away. Albert noted the exact time of death--11:45 AM on Tuesday. Unknown to Albert, his Dad's brother was also dying in a nursing home 10 miles away in the presence of loved ones. Just before he died, he sat up and shouted, ""Wait for my, brother! Wait for me!" When he then passed away, loved ones noted the time--11:45 AM, Tuesday. Yes, both brothers died at the same time and had a conversation which only makes sense and can only be pieced together when family members shared notes from both nursing homes. Apparently, as these brothers were detaching from their bodies, their center of consciousness was in a nonspatial realm which allowed them to converse, even though they were physically 10 miles apart.
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06-23-2017, 04:12 PM
Post: #14
RE: NDEs and ADCs: Awesome Verifications
There's no doubt in my mind that NDEs are genuine spiritual experiences. Anyone who has done a morsel of research into it with an open mind will inevitably realize this, and anyone actually reading Deadworm's posts will see that Ugly's copy and paste post doesn't even begin to explain what is taking place during these experiences. Not to mention the hypocrisy of his "blind faith" remarks.

One issue I'd like to discuss is the fact that many prominent pastors and Christian teachers believe that NDEs can't be actual experiences of heaven and hell because that would contradict scripture. I've heard the argument that no man had ever ascended into heaven and come back according to the bible, but I reckon they didn't have the medical technology and knowledge back then that would enable a person to be brought back to life after dying.
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06-24-2017, 07:13 AM
Post: #15
RE: NDEs and ADCs: Awesome Verifications
(06-23-2017 04:12 PM)I Am Dude Wrote:  One issue I'd like to discuss is the fact that many prominent pastors and Christian teachers believe that NDEs can't be actual experiences of heaven and hell because that would contradict scripture. I've heard the argument that no man had ever ascended into heaven and come back according to the bible, but I reckon they didn't have the medical technology and knowledge back then that would enable a person to be brought back to life after dying.

I disagree. It has been show that the human body will often "jumpstart" (as I think of it) to try reviving from a serious medical episode. This is why a drowning victim will not be breathing when rescued but suddenly begin breathing after a few minutes. This also sometimes happens in heart attack victims where the heart is in arrest but then defibrillates and begins beating again.

Couple this with the false belief that archaic medicine was ineffective. Before CPR was invented it was common practice to "trounce" a drowning victim by laying them across the back of a horse and having the horse trot. This can easily be seen to pump the heart and cause a limited air exchange to the lungs. Other medical procedures were done, going as far as limited brain surgery.

All that being said, who is to say the NDE itself isn't an inspiration, without actually being a trip to the afterlife.

-DFB

Subject: I have a black cat.
Believer: Black cats are bad luck.
Non-believer: It's just a cat.
Crackpot: Black cats are part of the New World Order government conspiracy.
Skeptic: I can test if black cats are more or less lucky than another cat.
Cynic: You only have a black cat to gain power and prestige.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9iIf4tFoyE
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06-24-2017, 09:19 AM
Post: #16
RE: NDEs and ADCs: Awesome Verifications
I think it's safe to say that the rate of resuscitation today is far greater than it was 2000 years ago. I also think it's safe to say that the rate of spontaneous resuscitation is far less than that achieved by modern medical practices and technology.

The fact that most NDEs have so many nearly identical characteristics is an indication that they are not mere hallucinations, without even getting into the numerous verifications.
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06-24-2017, 08:00 PM
Post: #17
RE: NDEs and ADCs: Awesome Verifications
(06-24-2017 09:19 AM)I Am Dude Wrote:  Quote " I've heard the argument that no man had ever ascended into heaven and come back according to the bible, but I reckon they didn't have the medical technology and knowledge back then that would enable a person to be brought back to life after dying."

I think it's safe to say that the rate of resuscitation today is far greater than it was 2000 years ago. I also think it's safe to say that the rate of spontaneous resuscitation is far less than that achieved by modern medical practices and technology.

The fact that most NDEs have so many nearly identical characteristics is an indication that they are not mere hallucinations, without even getting into the numerous verifications.

My bone of contention wasn't how often it occurs, but that it did actually occur. There is a difference between "no man", a few men, and "numerous men."

People have a lot of similar experiences. It is common to dream that you are at work or school naked or in you underclothes. Does that mean everyone has actually been at work naked?

But, again, I'm playing devil's advocate (not literally). I prefer to think that the Almighty is omniscient enough to know if you are alive or dead, but he might allow you to think you are dead if it will improve your faith.

-DFB

Subject: I have a black cat.
Believer: Black cats are bad luck.
Non-believer: It's just a cat.
Crackpot: Black cats are part of the New World Order government conspiracy.
Skeptic: I can test if black cats are more or less lucky than another cat.
Cynic: You only have a black cat to gain power and prestige.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9iIf4tFoyE
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06-25-2017, 07:26 AM
Post: #18
RE: NDEs and ADCs: Awesome Verifications
(06-24-2017 08:00 PM)Darkforeboding Wrote:  
(06-24-2017 09:19 AM)I Am Dude Wrote:  Quote " I've heard the argument that no man had ever ascended into heaven and come back according to the bible, but I reckon they didn't have the medical technology and knowledge back then that would enable a person to be brought back to life after dying."

I think it's safe to say that the rate of resuscitation today is far greater than it was 2000 years ago. I also think it's safe to say that the rate of spontaneous resuscitation is far less than that achieved by modern medical practices and technology.

The fact that most NDEs have so many nearly identical characteristics is an indication that they are not mere hallucinations, without even getting into the numerous verifications.

My bone of contention wasn't how often it occurs, but that it did actually occur. There is a difference between "no man", a few men, and "numerous men."

People have a lot of similar experiences. It is common to dream that you are at work or school naked or in you underclothes. Does that mean everyone has actually been at work naked?

But, again, I'm playing devil's advocate (not literally). I prefer to think that the Almighty is omniscient enough to know if you are alive or dead, but he might allow you to think you are dead if it will improve your faith.

I'm not 100% convinced that NDEs are genuine afterlife experiences, but I'm leaning towards that as a probability in face of the evidence. Of course, if you come back from the experience and the doctors tell you that you've been dead for the past ten minutes, I think it's safe to say that you were probably dead.
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06-25-2017, 07:02 PM
Post: #19
RE: NDEs and ADCs: Awesome Verifications
When we look at claimed NDE we must look at a few things that should give us a clue. First eye witness recalls are often wrong and are easily altered in normal healthy people so we are supposed to believe people in near death are suddenly accurate memories? Altered brain waves, chemicals and lack of oxygen? are to be automatically dismissed?

Not everyone who has a NDE has any experience or memory like those making claims.

So is god involved in those who claim a peaceful, beautiful place? So he is just messing with those who experience this? I'll let you look then psyche! back you go. Now if its so beautiful a place why would they want to come back? Why not hurry to go back to this afterlife?

What about those who experience nothing? God doesn't think they need to see? So what type people does god allow to experience this?

What about atheists? Some of them experience NDE so it doesn't matter if you believe in god? or god and heaven are not involved at all?
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06-25-2017, 08:09 PM
Post: #20
RE: NDEs and ADCs: Awesome Verifications
(06-25-2017 07:02 PM)UglyNRude Wrote:  When we look at claimed NDE we must look at a few things that should give us a clue. First eye witness recalls are often wrong and are easily altered in normal healthy people so we are supposed to believe people in near death are suddenly accurate memories? Altered brain waves, chemicals and lack of oxygen? are to be automatically dismissed?

Not everyone who has a NDE has any experience or memory like those making claims.

So is god involved in those who claim a peaceful, beautiful place? So he is just messing with those who experience this? I'll let you look then psyche! back you go. Now if its so beautiful a place why would they want to come back? Why not hurry to go back to this afterlife?

What about those who experience nothing? God doesn't think they need to see? So what type people does god allow to experience this?

What about atheists? Some of them experience NDE so it doesn't matter if you believe in god? or god and heaven are not involved at all?

There's also a pretty healthy group of people that will tell you they had an NDE that involved going to Hell.

-DFB

Subject: I have a black cat.
Believer: Black cats are bad luck.
Non-believer: It's just a cat.
Crackpot: Black cats are part of the New World Order government conspiracy.
Skeptic: I can test if black cats are more or less lucky than another cat.
Cynic: You only have a black cat to gain power and prestige.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9iIf4tFoyE
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