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Invoking elementals
03-04-2016, 11:08 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2016 11:10 PM by Akaalis.)
Post: #11
RE: Invoking elementals
(03-04-2016 06:17 PM)Wiccan_Goddess Wrote:  I've been thinking about this since I last posted this thread...and, I'm going to relax and just feel at ease with allowing myself to see and feel each elemental that I call to, because I know that I have the ability to will it and command it to obey what I tell it to do - which is to guard and protect my circle.

I'm sorry but, you cannot control or command them in the very least, they may do what you say because it amuses them to or simply because they have their own ulterior-motives for helping you.

Otherwise do not for a second think they have any obligation to be submissive to your command or any authority you think you wield over them. For some of them, they could turn on you(if they wanted) and in a situation like that it would be very difficult to escape a hole which one has dug for themself.
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03-05-2016, 11:51 AM
Post: #12
RE: Invoking elementals
(03-04-2016 11:08 PM)Akaalis Wrote:  
(03-04-2016 06:17 PM)Wiccan_Goddess Wrote:  I've been thinking about this since I last posted this thread...and, I'm going to relax and just feel at ease with allowing myself to see and feel each elemental that I call to, because I know that I have the ability to will it and command it to obey what I tell it to do - which is to guard and protect my circle.

I'm sorry but, you cannot control or command them in the very least, they may do what you say because it amuses them to or simply because they have their own ulterior-motives for helping you.

Otherwise do not for a second think they have any obligation to be submissive to your command or any authority you think you wield over them. For some of them, they could turn on you(if they wanted) and in a situation like that it would be very difficult to escape a hole which one has dug for themself.

With all due respect Akaalis, I wasn't referring to controlling the Gods - I hold the highest and utmost respect and reverence for them - I'm well aware that they will do as they please and that they ARE intelligent sentient beings. I will always thank them for whatever guidance and assistance they have given me during any of my healing rituals and will simply inform them when I'm finished so they can leave my circle or stay if they wish.

I was referring to maintaining authority and control over the elementals, which I also have respect for. However, these are NOT sentient beings - they aren't malevolent, they don't have ulterior motives or feel obligated to do anything and they don't become amused about things...they aren't thinking, intelligent beings. They are raw Elemental forces, and they just follow their nature...which is why they must be controlled whenever they are invoked, because if they aren't, then they will simply do whatever is in their nature to do, and that could cause problems for the person who invoked them.

As I've stated in another thread, I'm new to Wicca and witchcraft and have learned many things since my interest in it began late last year. I always appreciate opinions and experiences that others share with me, as this helps me to learn more about the craft. Thanks for your post, Akaalis! Icontexto-emoticons-06-032x032

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03-05-2016, 12:35 PM
Post: #13
RE: Invoking elementals
Just my thoughts...

If you think it's not that easy to control elementals, which are (you said) non-intelligent-and at the same time; non-sentient beings, why would you still want to do it?

Wouldn't it be easier to work with intelligent sentient beings instead...?
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03-05-2016, 01:06 PM
Post: #14
RE: Invoking elementals
(03-05-2016 12:35 PM)MaCan Wrote:  Just my thoughts...

If you think it's not that easy to control elementals, which are (you said) non-intelligent-and at the same time; non-sentient beings, why would you still want to do it?

Wouldn't it be easier to work with intelligent sentient beings instead...?

Yes, it would be. But, for now, I need the elementals to guard and protect all four directions of my circle whist I perform healing rituals with the help of higher level entities.

Once I get to the point where I no longer need to cast circles and can do ritual anywhere, then I'll be able to involve only the higher level sentient beings and not have to deal with the lower level non-sentient entities. I learned this a few months ago and also was informed about this by one of the members here. Thanks for your thoughts, MaCan.Icontexto-emoticons-07-032x032

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03-05-2016, 02:03 PM
Post: #15
RE: Invoking elementals
By my experience Elementals are not thoughtless/ non-sentient entities. Its like saying any living creature that isnt a human doesn't think. There is intelligence even in the insect kingdom, the honeycomb and such. Im not saying they are smarter then us but there is a spark that many fail to understand.

What I don't understand is why you would be more inclined to see/feel them during a ritual. Do you not have any ability to see? I find elemental spirits as very common myself, one is a standing resident in my house, and hes got his own sense of humor for sure.

I still think you are better mastering your own power first.

"Studies Show...Intelligent girls are more depressed, because they know what the world is really like.....She knows in society she's either a Devil or an Angel with no in between. She speaks in the third person, so that she can forget that she's me." ~Emily Autumn
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03-05-2016, 02:41 PM
Post: #16
RE: Invoking elementals
(03-05-2016 02:03 PM)Fair_Luminary Wrote:  By my experience Elementals are not thoughtless/ non-sentient entities. Its like saying any living creature that isnt a human doesn't think. There is intelligence even in the insect kingdom, the honeycomb and such. Im not saying they are smarter then us but there is a spark that many fail to understand.

What I don't understand is why you would be more inclined to see/feel them during a ritual. Do you not have any ability to see? I find elemental spirits as very common myself, one is a standing resident in my house, and hes got his own sense of humor for sure.

I still think you are better mastering your own power first.

I didn't mean to make it sound like elementals aren't intelligent at all. I know they have very basic intelligence because they follow their nature and do what they want to do without really thinking about it. But seeing as you have actual experience dealing with them and you can see them regularly, then I'll definitely take what you've said into consideration.

No, I don't have the ability to 'see' or 'feel' them outside of casting circle (yet); I think this has to do with the fact that I'm a novice at all of this and I'm trying to develop my own power and sensing abilities as I go. Wow, you have seen an elemental that LIVES in your HOUSE and that has a sense of humor? May I ask how you know that it's an elemental spirit and not a higher level entity? I'm also learning trying to tell the difference between the two. Also, how long did it take for you (from when you first started learning about witchcraft) to start seeing or feeling the presence of entities? This intrigues me SO much, you have no idea.

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03-05-2016, 04:36 PM
Post: #17
RE: Invoking elementals
We are different, I looked into the occult because of what I see not the other way around. Stitch and I went into alot of depth on the matter here
http://www.talkparanormal.com/showthread...t=stitches
There were others here that were similar but the accounts are littered over the site.

While I can be termed a witch I don't count myself as one and I am not wiccan. I follow the traditions of my ancestors{German/Irish pagans} the best I can. What is missing due to the destructive Christian church I have filled with the wisdom of other paths.

As for the Elemental, I don't care for labeling entities much. Either it was human, isn't human anymore, or never was human, and in general entities are positive, negative or neutral. The Elemental I can count as a house spirit or a trickster, I think he fits with all three. His form is not always the same does that make him a shape shifter? The problem is defining things without really understanding them. In short he is an inhuman entity and thats enough for me, I use the other words as needed to clarify to others. He is of the earth but travels fine through the house. Mostly stays to the basement and a few other rooms.

As for his standing if he was a higher level entity I highly doubt he would have been living at my house playing jokes on occasion over as long as I can remember{Im 30}. I think hes always been with the property/area{not specifically the house}. We have a understanding of sorts, but going back to basic nature hes kinda a jerk.

As for how to tell them apart that has to do with their energy and appearance{to a lesser degree}. There is more then just higher entities and elementals. And Im guessing by higher you mean more divine then more powerful. There is some pretty powerful things walking the earth.

"Studies Show...Intelligent girls are more depressed, because they know what the world is really like.....She knows in society she's either a Devil or an Angel with no in between. She speaks in the third person, so that she can forget that she's me." ~Emily Autumn
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03-05-2016, 11:10 PM
Post: #18
RE: Invoking elementals
(03-05-2016 04:36 PM)Fair_Luminary Wrote:  We are different, I looked into the occult because of what I see not the other way around. Stitch and I went into alot of depth on the matter here
http://www.talkparanormal.com/showthread...t=stitches
There were others here that were similar but the accounts are littered over the site.

I read most of your posts about it and I have to say, that's downright creepy. I thank my lucky stars that I've never seen anything like that or anything at all! That's probably why I was a little skittish about seeing and feeling any of the elementals I call to. I just have like ZERO experience with entities and anything supernatural - which is probably why I'm so drawn to Wicca and with working magick. I know that as people, we fear the unknown...and that's what I want to work on, getting to know and getting experience with this so that I won't fear it anymore.


Quote:While I can be termed a witch I don't count myself as one and I am not wiccan. I follow the traditions of my ancestors{German/Irish pagans} the best I can. What is missing due to the destructive Christian church I have filled with the wisdom of other paths.

As for the Elemental, I don't care for labeling entities much. Either it was human, isn't human anymore, or never was human, and in general entities are positive, negative or neutral. The Elemental I can count as a house spirit or a trickster, I think he fits with all three. His form is not always the same does that make him a shape shifter? The problem is defining things without really understanding them. In short he is an inhuman entity and thats enough for me, I use the other words as needed to clarify to others. He is of the earth but travels fine through the house. Mostly stays to the basement and a few other rooms.

As for his standing if he was a higher level entity I highly doubt he would have been living at my house playing jokes on occasion over as long as I can remember{Im 30}. I think hes always been with the property/area{not specifically the house}. We have a understanding of sorts, but going back to basic nature hes kinda a jerk.

As for how to tell them apart that has to do with their energy and appearance{to a lesser degree}. There is more then just higher entities and elementals. And Im guessing by higher you mean more divine then more powerful. There is some pretty powerful things walking the earth.

It's so interesting to me how you talk about elementals and other types of entities, as if you were speaking about different types of coffee! I hope to get to the point you're at, the point to where I can just regard them for what they are and talk about them as if they're as normal as if I were to see a car driving by or someone walking past me. When you said there are some pretty powerful things walking the earth, what did you mean by that? Can you elaborate? And yes, I was talking about entities that are divine AND also more powerful.

Do you do rituals, such as healing ones or rituals where you want to perform some type of magick? Or do you just not do anything like that at all and instead you do other things that other people would deem you as a witch?

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03-06-2016, 12:04 AM
Post: #19
RE: Invoking elementals
Same with Fair_Luminary, I've never seen spiritual entities without intelligent before... Each and every one of them would have their own intelligent, will, and they're all also sentient, in my own opinion. I'm sorry, I don't mean to confuse you nor do I want to confront your knowledge, but if I have to make an honest statement, that's what I know, see, and feel about them. Well, I'm walking a different path here...

But if you don't mind and can apply some combined methods in your learning (if you can't, then don't), here, let's just try to see it this way; you say in your circle, you can see them, yes? Burn a piece of incense while you can still see them and see how your summoned elementals would react. If they're attracted to the burning incense (which is something that suppose to happen), it means they're sentient. Keep in mind, however, if you're doing this then you should know what to do next (burning incense is only a part of the whole ritual) unless you want to end up having unwanted attachement(s) in your place.

Well, here in my country, at least I can say, all spiritual entities like the burning incense aroma so much so they will come closer to you almost at once when you burn the incense. I don't know though, how would they react there.

This is, actually a part of the 'controlling ritual' you asked-a la my country, that is. But I don't think it'll be taught to someone who's just starting to learn spirituality-not just yet...

Point is, if you want them to 'cooperate' with you and do exactly what you want them to do, you have to give them something in return. It's just like paying them-consider they're your temporary employees. In real world, we have the obligation to pay the people who are working for us, yes? Then it's no different with them. Just remember, they have their own will, thus 'wandering around' doesn't mean they're not doing their job, you don't have to tell them what to do to the letter since they can see and feel something you probably can't-they might improvise as necessary. If there's any threat you fail to notice, of course they might leave their post to face the threat as soon as possible and as far as it can be from you (to keep you away from harm). They'll do their job alright, as long as they're okay with the 'payment' you give them.

But of course, you have to make a wise decision first, which side are you going to ask to cooperate with you. I don't encourage cooperation with negative entities, they're usually the easiest ones to be asked to cooperate with. But the payment they'll ask... Might not something you can afford at all.

Chose positive entities to cooperate with instead. Yes, they can be harder to be asked to cooperate with and they'll set strict rules (for you) if they're agree to cooperate with you, but they won't ask more than you can give them. I mean, they'll see what you can give them before they decide to take it or not, and when they decided to take it, it means they won't ask for more upon the completion of the job.

Do you have your own spirit guide(s) or protector(s), if I may ask? If you don't, I do suggest you to find them first, and make a bound with them (so they'll be attached to you). Spirit guide(s) and/or protector(s) are originally positive entities-if you see them become corrupted somehow, it's not them (doesn't matter whatever they might try to tell you); it's something else in their replace while they themselves are shifting away from you-you have to be careful when this happens. And I think it's going to be the first and the most important thing you should do when you decide to learn spirituality ; to find them and make a bound with them. They can guide you better, they're more than capable to protect you (and since they're attached to you, you don't have to summon them first to be able to protect you as they'll do that in an instant upon the presence of any threat), and if you-somehow, need to use the elementals in your works (which is something I highly doubt, because your own guide(s) and protector(s) are usually more than enough to cover things up for you), I believe they'll have a better control over these elementals than you do.

But of course, I can only saying my own opinions here. It's you who's going to need to make decision for yourself, and I have no right whatsoever to interfere. Smile

Do forgive my English, since it's not my first language Smile
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03-06-2016, 12:20 PM (This post was last modified: 03-06-2016 12:21 PM by Akaalis.)
Post: #20
RE: Invoking elementals
(03-06-2016 12:04 AM)MaCan Wrote:  Point is, if you want them to 'cooperate' with you and do exactly what you want them to do, you have to give them something in return.

That was very affirming to one of my replies in this thread. These entities have their own ulterior-motives to fulfill and are not going to do something out of the selflessness or generosity of their heart . Like people, alot of these entities want things as well. If you enlist help from the worst ones than they will definitely seek collateral if you're unable to meet their initial offer requirements.

That's why I've always cautioned against summoning or calling on these type of things to begin with.

Even though I never call or am not interested in communicating with them, majority of the time they can clearly see that I can see them and are thus inclined with having conversations with me, but I just ignore them completely and let them know that I am simply not interested in a dialogue with them, at all.
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