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The PseudoScientific Establishment of Parapsychology - Travel to Seattle
07-18-2016, 08:26 PM
Post: #21
RE: The PseudoScientific Establishment of Parapsychology - Travel to Seattle
Its hard to do a mic drop when you cant even understand the phrase years to the day.
Example:
My one job I was hired and fired on valentines day. I was there two years to the day.

Sorry I have a pet peeve of people using words and phrases they dont understand to appear intelligent, my favorite word for this phenomenon? Dilattante.

"Studies Show...Intelligent girls are more depressed, because they know what the world is really like.....She knows in society she's either a Devil or an Angel with no in between. She speaks in the third person, so that she can forget that she's me." ~Emily Autumn
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07-18-2016, 09:21 PM
Post: #22
RE: The PseudoScientific Establishment of Parapsychology - Travel to Seattle
I love Question and Answers and I love explaining the truth about this case vs. lies, innuendo and etc. found online.

And I take ALL comers. UglyNRude you are first!

Your question of..."With so many pages calling it faked”

That’s a clever tactic of bait n switch. You don't provide the names of individuals or organizations calling this case or the events experienced from 2012 to 2014 fake. You simply state "so many pages call it fake” These people you refer to as "pages" are not the judge and jury of what’s paranormal and what’s not. Ironically their individuals like yourself, there numbers are few, so few you can’t even name them. A guy siting in his moms basement with his own YouTube channel is not an authoritative representative of the paranormal.

To make your job easy I ask that you provide the name and organization name of those calling the events we experience fake. No investigator worth their weight in gold is going to call anything fake unless they themselves have had a chance to review the evidence. The most some can say is " I don't know, I'd sure like to investigate that house to find out for myself." Forum members with Avatar names are not the litmus test to paranormal events experienced by me and others. You position yourself here as griot when in fact you are not.

Your second gripe for spreading innuendo and doubt is the method used to make the wall markings.

Your question and the manner in which you raise such a question is both accusatory and revealing of how much you lack understanding the paranormal.

It is not the color, description, or pattern that make the 666 and Upside Down Man paranormal. "History being the most qualified to reward all research" teaches us that there are numerous documented cases: Demonic, Poltergeist and Ghost related that point to wall markings. Crayons have been used. INK has been used. Chalk has been used. Tar has been used and by used I mean to write some sort of word, sentence, phrase, or insignia on a wall. If spirits were once human like you and me why is so farfetched to believe a spirit even after death retains the ability to write, and to write in the language of either house occupant or the language it knows? I didn't say ET wrote on my wall. I said something malevolent did.

Second - Those who study Poltergeist and malevolent hauntings for a living (not you of course) will tell you spirits are not only cunning, and manipulative. They all do things to make the house occupant look foolish. Making the house occupants appear as fakes or hoaxers is within the realm of possibility for both Demon and Poltergeist. Why you have the luxury of falling for such tricks I do not and have not.

Third - Don't get too caught up in the pattern and the markings itself. One should not think the black ink or etc. is something out of this world or if it’s NOT FROM out of this world then it must be man made. The ink might be man-made. The one doing the application to the wall however might not be. That's to be determined. That's called research.

That's called fact finding. You do yourself a credit if you make an attempt to get acquainted with the statements of the case.

The statement in a nutshell is as follows. [ The entity, or entities plural chose to wait till Tina and myself were at work or away from the house to do a majority of its activity, that includes the wall markings]

I won’t go into detail as to why Poltergeist or Malevolent spirits do that but you can best believe one of their reasons is for doubters and mud throwers like yourself to post silly questions.

Conclusion - If this indeed a Paranormal community then it has to give way for intelligent thought. Innuendo and false statements are not intelligent thought. Accusations are not questions - there accusations. Most tend to not wait on the facts. If you want to debunk something, go right ahead but it does you credit to have a firm grasp of the subject matter. Shooting from the hip, hoping to poke holes in a case or true story is beneath the subject matter.

Ghost Adventures is not the authority or governing body of what’s paranormal. Half you dislike them anyways. Sort of ironic you chose to cling to their yielding 0 investigation as fact, when any true investigator will tell you. You don't always get the evidence the first time around.

I'm not Enfield. I'm not Amityville. I'm not any previous case deemed a hoax simply by the fact that masses screaming hoax outnumbered the masses screaming its real. Esp. the one's who were there. And Tina and myself were there. I can't fault you for not being here when all of this study. That's foolish. I can fault you for making innuendos up as you go so you retain the crown of being the Forum skeptic.

If you have no intelligent retort to the evidence, then let silence be your virtue. If not. Fold up your sleeves and let’s debate and analyze the evidence based on the merits.

That in itself is the definition of a paranormal forum community.


https://macqdor.box.com/s/93o3vk8o5i5222...udo9ikwfg3

Now pretty please. Ask me a question that makes me go grab my note pad and spiral note book.

because as of right now. My memory albeit lacking at times, is addressing everything you've mentioned thus far.
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07-18-2016, 11:57 PM
Post: #23
RE: The PseudoScientific Establishment of Parapsychology - Travel to Seattle
(07-18-2016 04:23 PM)macqdor Wrote:  I moved out of the House May 9th of this year after completing a 4 year lease.

I could have sworn at one point you said you bought the house. Later on, we all found out that you're renting it.

(07-18-2016 04:23 PM)macqdor Wrote:  Truth eventually wins.

Only when you decide to come clean and admit to your half lies. The truth will set you free.

[Image: space.gif]
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07-19-2016, 08:01 AM
Post: #24
RE: The PseudoScientific Establishment of Parapsychology - Travel to Seattle
The krylon paint kind of gives us a little boy who cried wolf. The nothing caught on video..... just evp when a bunch of people are talking in and around the home. Bovine scatology at its best. and you have refused to answer about the supposed testing.
Krylon webbing
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WWpspzNtCaM/maxresdefault.jpg

Belief bias occurs when we make illogical conclusions in order to confirm our preexisting beliefs. Belief perseverance refers to our tendency to maintain a belief even after the evidence we used to form the belief is contradicted.
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07-19-2016, 07:32 PM (This post was last modified: 07-19-2016 07:34 PM by Darkforeboding.)
Post: #25
RE: The PseudoScientific Establishment of Parapsychology - Travel to Seattle
(07-18-2016 09:21 PM)macqdor Wrote:  Your second gripe for spreading innuendo and doubt is the method used to make the wall markings.

Your question and the manner in which you raise such a question is both accusatory and revealing of how much you lack understanding the paranormal.

It is not the color, description, or pattern that make the 666 and Upside Down Man paranormal. "History being the most qualified to reward all research" teaches us that there are numerous documented cases: Demonic, Poltergeist and Ghost related that point to wall markings. Crayons have been used. INK has been used. Chalk has been used. Tar has been used and by used I mean to write some sort of word, sentence, phrase, or insignia on a wall. If spirits were once human like you and me why is so farfetched to believe a spirit even after death retains the ability to write, and to write in the language of either house occupant or the language it knows? I didn't say ET wrote on my wall. I said something malevolent did.

Conclusion - If this indeed a Paranormal community then it has to give way for intelligent thought.

I can fault you for making innuendos up as you go so you retain the crown of being the Forum skeptic.

I'm a little late to the discussion, so just for the record tell me if I have this correct, please. Your allegation is that something supernatural used a can of Krylon spray paint to paint "666" on your wall?

This isn't actually a paranormal community, neither figuratively nor literally. This is a paranormal talk community.

As far a UnR having or needing to retain a "crown" of being the Forum skeptic, he'd probably take that as a nice badge but I'm sure it's a little irritating.

-DFB

Subject: I have a black cat.
Believer: Black cats are bad luck.
Non-believer: It's just a cat.
Crackpot: Black cats are part of the New World Order government conspiracy.
Skeptic: I can test if black cats are more or less lucky than another cat.
Cynic: You only have a black cat to gain power and prestige.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9iIf4tFoyE
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07-19-2016, 07:42 PM
Post: #26
RE: The PseudoScientific Establishment of Parapsychology - Travel to Seattle
That's possibly true. I've long since discovered the the word Paranormal is a misnomer among forum sights.

That being said I continue to post and share the evidence as myself, S.E.P and other teams make available.

Thanks

Keith

https://youtu.be/whsHPreLIZ4
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07-20-2016, 02:55 PM
Post: #27
RE: The PseudoScientific Establishment of Parapsychology - Travel to Seattle
(07-19-2016 07:42 PM)macqdor Wrote:  That's possibly true. I've long since discovered the the word Paranormal is a misnomer among forum sights.

That being said I continue to post and share the evidence as myself, S.E.P and other teams make available.

Thanks

Keith

https://youtu.be/whsHPreLIZ4

Hey there Keith,

Until recently I hadn't paid much attention to this thread but I guess curiosity killed the cat lol. I watched most of the Ghost Adventures episode you were involved in and I will say that it's pretty apparent that they had an agenda in your case. They were very repetitious about how big your claims were, as if repeating it would brainwash listeners lol. I think it's a possibility that the show's owners had it out for you from the beginning. That being said I am curious as to why you stayed in this house so long?
Also I found this via google when I looked up the show Ghost Adventures lol. Very telling.
https://www.quora.com/How-was-Ghost-Adve...-fake-show
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07-20-2016, 04:31 PM
Post: #28
RE: The PseudoScientific Establishment of Parapsychology - Travel to Seattle
(07-18-2016 09:21 PM)macqdor Wrote:  To make your job easy I ask that you provide the name and organization name of those calling the events we experience fake. No investigator worth their weight in gold is going to call anything fake unless they themselves have had a chance to review the evidence. The most some can say is " I don't know, I'd sure like to investigate that house to find out for myself." Forum members with Avatar names are not the litmus test to paranormal events experienced by me and others. You position yourself here as griot when in fact you are not.
........
I'm not Enfield. I'm not Amityville. I'm not any previous case deemed a hoax simply by the fact that masses screaming hoax outnumbered the masses screaming its real. Esp. the one's who were there. And Tina and myself were there. I can't fault you for not being here when all of this study. That's foolish. I can fault you for making innuendos up as you go so you retain the crown of being the Forum skeptic.
GRIOT?
So UnR is a west african oral traditions story teller? laughing. You know its of my pet peeves but keep going your higher then everyone else abuse of words is getting pretty funny.

UnR
If I make you a crown{though I think you would look fetching in a circlet} do you have somewhere I could leave it that you could pick it up. Because I really want to make you a crown now. I can put it in a bus locker and like leave the key in a secret place it would be brilliant. We could be like spies. I think if you are to wear a crown we need to make you a coat of arms. Maybe like a foot stomping on ghosts or something.....i need to brainstorm on that.......

"Studies Show...Intelligent girls are more depressed, because they know what the world is really like.....She knows in society she's either a Devil or an Angel with no in between. She speaks in the third person, so that she can forget that she's me." ~Emily Autumn
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07-20-2016, 04:52 PM
Post: #29
RE: The PseudoScientific Establishment of Parapsychology - Travel to Seattle
...Why did we choose to stay in the house so long?

A decision was made between girlfriend and I of not leaving the house the way we found it. What the show did not reveal was contact was successfully made with some previous tenants of the home. By me.

This wife and husband(divorced now) told us of their experience and everything that happened to them and their children: primarily one of their sons. It was told in confidence and what was told to me rivals some of the events Tina and I experienced. Esp what happened to their son. There was noway to offer the land lord and future tenants true accounts without evidence to substantiate our claims. Had I had children or pets being abused I like them would have left on day 1. The previous tenants left and understandably so. But they to had some equal horror stories to tell. It took me 2 yrs to find them, or close to 2 years. A 2nd family came forth after seeing the GA episode.


My goal was to get a crew inside the house to thoroughly investigate, get and secure the proof. Keep in mind the owner wanted answers to and he had to green light and approve everything.

It perplexes me the great lengths some will go through to label us fakes and hoaxers when in fact after GA found nothing ( they worked for the home owner, or got home owner approval ) Tina and I just lived there. Even with GA leaving with 0 evidence, we still managed to live in the house 2 more years. So the owner had to believe us and even more he keep on believing in us to allow an exorcism to performed on the house July 2014, and to allow east-coast and UK teams in to investigate where GA found nothing. Truth be told and this logic riddles me as well.

My friend (Now) Steve Mera said it best when he said. "The absence of evidence, does not mean evidence is absent."

I researched and found Steve and his team. They flew 10,000 miles and they saw the GA episode and you know what that episode didn't deter them. They still asked fact finding and fundamental questions. The method for which how they gather evidence differs from GA as night and day.

The question seldom asked but maybe should be asked is why did multiple teams, nearly all teams capture and witness activity with the exception of GA? That's the real question worth asking. But many wont ask it. GA is not the beginning and ending truth sayer of whats Paranormal.

U hit the nail right on the coffin when you suggested they had their own agenda prior to arrival. I wont go in detail about their investigation, accept to say my conversation with GA and Dave Schradder prior to their arrival was 15 minutes. A 15 minute phone conversation. That's how long their pre-screeing process was.

The communication between me and S.E.P lasted 4 months. Conversations, screening, filtering, speaking to previous tenants and etc started in September 2015. 4 months of pre-screening and interviewing before they agreed to come which came after Christmas 2015. They arrived mid-jan 2016. Keep in mind the activity is still going on during this pre-screen process.

Ghost Adventures via Dave Schradder spoke to me for 15 minutes. The next morning they emailed me saying they'd like to "help." 3 weeks later they were here.

So who's the professional investigator and who isn't?

I have so many emails from GA, their production company, their directors and producers post that episode of them wanting to come back or re-interview us for Aftershocks. I have their email, Zaks assessment about the investigation 12 hrs after leaving our house. Dave tweeted from Seatac airport his inability to sleep since leaving that house. I could blast and upload all of that communication and emails online and contradict what it is some believe about them. Zak never said we hoaxed, or faked. Not verbally. He implies it enough via the end of the episode and one radio interview(w/Dave) so his zealot fans can say it.

I'm not in a war with GA, or Zak. Im trying to share info, share evidence being delivered to me by respectable individuals (Steve Mera 30+ yrs as a Parapsychologist and Don Philips).

The trolls, the detractors, the skeptics, the cynics. They dont bother me. Some of these same people doing the innuendo spreading would pee the floor after staying one night in that house.

When Steve and Don completed Phase I and Phase II of their investigation and verified our claims, key word being our claims(previous tenant, and more) the reason to stay was gone. I left the house when I wanted to leave, May 2016. 4 Years to the day almost of when we moved in.

The land lord gave me a perfect reference to live elsewhere. He has the info. The next home occupant should they experience activity will have help and information on standby. The case iss till officially still open.

We're all the same page as it should be. Nothing has been easy. Its been pure hell at times. But leaving, without substantiation and perhaps having the next occupant walk n that house blind (with kids, infants, and etc) Just didn't sit well with me. That's why we stayed.


These strangers who post this vindictive stuff. This innuendo stuff dont know me. They dont know us. They dont even know GA or Zak Bagans. All they do is sling innuendo and judgement about whats real and whats fake by peeping, and reading what they think is the truth on the internet- When in truth there just peeping through a key hole. Not knowing 99% of whats going on or what really happened. I respond to questions. Not accusations and not rhetorical. Some people would rather be right (in their head) than know the truth. I waste little time with those people. If this is a paranormal community then lets talk Paranormal. Lets talk science and lets dissect together what we've seen, heard and felt. If you dont believe move along. Allow others a closer look.

An accusation is not a question.

I thank you for asking a question. Many thanks

Thanks
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07-20-2016, 07:52 PM
Post: #30
RE: The PseudoScientific Establishment of Parapsychology - Travel to Seattle
Hi Nix

The option to stay for the amount of time we stayed? That decision came 4 years after we made contact with some of the previous tenants. A husband and wife with 3 kids lived in the house some 4 years prior and the wife told us of their ordeal. Although much shorter than ours. Some of their horror stories rivaled even ours. Their children were effected. Had we had children the decision to flee would've came much much quicker. My thought, our thought was we could not. We would not leave the house the way we found it. Meaning someone with a degree of knowledge about the paranormal, with a level of seriousness and sincerity must come in and substantiate our claims and make the house livable. The alternative? Come in. Move in and be blind sided by what occupies the night. I'd lose more sleep over a toddler in a crib being poked and prodded like I was vs. any candle ever being thrown at me. One I can sadly imagine. The other I cannot.

Whats funny and semi-hilarious to me is how skeptics and cynics alike over-look one key fact about the house. Nothing I bought in - in regards to teams, specialists, clergy, priest and researchers (parapsychologist) went without the green-light and approval of the home owner.

I found The Scientific Establishment of Parapsychology (Steve Mera and Don Philips). They interviewed me, screened us, screened me, verified some of the evidence already compiled back in September of 2015. That dialogue and vetting lasted 4 months. Guess how long my vetting and pre-screen with Ghost Adventures was? It was 15 minutes.

They found me. Dave Schradder asked me 15 minutes worth of question. The next morning I had an email and voice mail from the team of their interests in "helping" 3 weeks later they were here. Ghost Adventures overall investigation from start to finish? 10-11 hrs. With probably 6-7 hours of actual in house investigation. S.E.P the organization Steve and Don belong to stayed 2 weeks. Phase I one week. Phase II another week+1 day. Total 15 days. They LIVED in the house for 15 days. Zak and crew stayed in a Hotel. A Suite even.

Its interesting how some like to leap with the notion that Zak Bagans said the whole thing was a hoax. The word "hoax" has never came out of Zaks mouth, at least not publicly. You are correct to admit that the show did have an agenda - should they leave with 0 evidence they can swing the investigation via post editing in such a way to make their fans be the one voicing the word "fake" and "hoax". And thats exactly what they did with hopes of gaining an ounce of credibility with the paranormal community who at the time was criticizing them for finding Ghosts on every episode.

Question to the masses:

How can you debunk something when you leave with 0 evidence? Did you catch us in the act? There was no way for you to catch us in the act. You sent us away to a Hotel while you conducted your tour of the house. The spirits chose not to interact with you and for that you edit the show in such a manner to suggest over-exaggeration, fakery or hoaxing. You imply attention seekers, when in fact you found us. No true investigator worth their grain in salt would ever suggest hoaxing unless you have concrete proof we actually did.

One quote Steve Mera offered me was (a man with 35+ years under his belt) was this:

"the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". It really isn't. Even though some would like to assume that it is. Some members here and elsewhere.

If I wanted to burn GA, Zak, or Dave I could post the emails they sent me, and by they I mean the producers, directors and assistance to Zak and the show post GA investigation which took place in November of 2014. I have all those correspondence. I KEEP EVERYTHING. I have, better yet we have the invite to re-appear on AfterShocks. My goal is TO not burn anybody. I will tell the truth however when I feel lies, innuendo, and rumor has gotten the upper hand. I will offer my side of the story. Our true story. And one would be wise to listen. Dont accept it on its merits but you should at least listen and listen with the goal of not trying to find a "gotcha" moment.

It seems most of those that are in the paranormal field or have a interests in the paranormal are NOT really interested in the science at all. They view it as entertainment. Its worth snickering about some feel. Most are (truth be told) are more so in the debunk business. Just because you have a logical explanation for something happening doesn't make that logical explanation fact. Its more conjecture than what you (not you specifically) accuse us of.

Steve and Don interviewed witnesses, previous tenants. Zak and GA didn't. They flew 10,000 miles 4 times (to and fro).

Tina and I moved in the house May 1st 2012. My move out date was May 9th 2016. 4 years to the T just about. Obviously the home owner found validity in our claims, even after GA left with 0 evidence. Obviously the home owner trusted me enough to find a team suitable to substantiate claims and problem solve. And that's what we did. Problem solve. The case is officially still open.

No family moving into the house is moving in blind of both history and facts should those history and facts begin haunting them I'm held to confidence on what the previous tenants told me. Took me 2 years to locate them Suffice to say the most hideous events they experiences took place with the children. Like 99% of people living in a such a place. The moved out and rightfully so.

The hell we catch online by some. By some individuals here pales in comparison to the hell we lived through. Especially 2014, and 2015.

Those cynics, and skeptics couldn't last one night in that house. They'd pee the floor while running out the door. I'm not special. Tina's not special. I made a choice to leave the house better in which I found it. But I was right. We were right and we stuck to our belief system and the rewards i.e. evidence has been plenty. Its been earth shattering. Whats out there now is maybe 15% of it. Wait till the 85% remainder arrives. And guess what all 85% of it is coming here and elsewhere. Please step forward and place you bets/chips on the table if you still think this is a hoax.

The evidence which proved elusive to Ghost Adventures. The question people should ask (skeptics included) is why did GA leave with 0, nada, zilch and every team before and after them left with bucket loads. And those who didn't leave with bucket loads of evidence saw and witnesses phenomena with their own eyes. You provided some of the answers to that question Nix in your post above :-)


Thank you for not putting your question in an accusatory manner.

******************************************************

Fair_Luminary

A Griot is a keeper of history and culture. The word "story" is primitive to say the least. My ancestors told and stored their history through the art story telling. Generally one individual has the duty of maintaining it. The best way to keep a story from changing over time is to have one person tell it. That person would tell all he knew to a child or replacement and so on and so. It helped the story not get filtered or falsehoods added. In the village stories that were factual came from the Griots mouth. No one else. I'll let you in on a little secret. It was a honorary title.

The reason I post and share info in this community and other communities is because each community, i.e. the internet as a whole is my virtual Griot. You see history is just that His-Story. Usually someone else tells it and in doing so tell it incorrectly.

I post evidence here because odds are this web community (even with the skeptics and cynics) will out live me. The internet surely will. YouTube surely will. Other cloud services surely will. One article gets copy/pasted a thousand times............and ends up Lord knows where. But its there.

People positive and negative can come and read and make up their own minds. But at least and I'll close with this. At least they'll see my comments, they'll see my haters, and my detractors as well. But the 2 out of 5 will see my comments and maybe just maybe, if the research of the paranormal does ever advance in topic and understanding. Maybe just maybe this atoms weight of info will be able to help it reach the finish line. Thats why I'm here.

Why are you here?
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