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'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
12-03-2015, 08:55 AM
Post: #1
'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
"Prayers aren't working."
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ny...bernardino

Belief bias occurs when we make illogical conclusions in order to confirm our preexisting beliefs. Belief perseverance refers to our tendency to maintain a belief even after the evidence we used to form the belief is contradicted.
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04-01-2016, 04:21 AM
Post: #2
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(12-03-2015 08:55 AM)UglyNRude Wrote:  "Prayers aren't working."
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ny...bernardino

There is nothing for it to fix, holy war is it's jam.
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04-01-2016, 07:10 AM
Post: #3
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(12-03-2015 08:55 AM)UglyNRude Wrote:  "Prayers aren't working."
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ny...bernardino

Ugh, more anti-religion propaganda. Why does everyone want to blame God for the things men do? I believe God gave us free will, otherwise we would be like robots. How loving would that be, to give life but no control? It wouldn't. Unfortunately this world is riddled with mentally ill people. And somehow it's always God's fault or the gun's fault. It truly befuddles me why people who don't believe in God try to find ways to discredit his existence.
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04-01-2016, 07:58 AM
Post: #4
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
Maybe when people stop using god as a fix all people will stop posting about it.
Feel evil? call a priest.
How often do we see someone ask for prayer when someone is sick? Daily? oh wait thats ok.... its ok to push beliefs on others

Belief bias occurs when we make illogical conclusions in order to confirm our preexisting beliefs. Belief perseverance refers to our tendency to maintain a belief even after the evidence we used to form the belief is contradicted.
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04-01-2016, 08:36 AM
Post: #5
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 07:58 AM)UglyNRude Wrote:  Maybe when people stop using god as a fix all people will stop posting about it.
Feel evil? call a priest.
How often do we see someone ask for prayer when someone is sick? Daily? oh wait thats ok.... its ok to push beliefs on others

Your pushing your beliefs on others, I'm not.
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04-01-2016, 09:35 AM
Post: #6
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 08:36 AM)Nix Wrote:  Your pushing your beliefs on others, I'm not.

He's not pushing his beliefs on others, he's simply being the most intense skeptic possible, which is pretty much the nature of his position and stance.

If there is insufficient evidence to disprove his stance beyond a reasonable doubt, then he can be quite relentless.

Evidence of the paranormal and "God" is quite scarce in today's time, while disbelief in it is in much abundance.
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04-01-2016, 10:20 AM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2016 10:49 AM by Nix.)
Post: #7
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 09:35 AM)Akaalis Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 08:36 AM)Nix Wrote:  Your pushing your beliefs on others, I'm not.

He's not pushing his beliefs on others, he's simply being the most intense skeptic possible, which is pretty much the nature of his position and stance.

If there is insufficient evidence to disprove his stance beyond a reasonable doubt, then he can be quite relentless.

Evidence of the paranormal and "God" is quite scarce in today's time, while disbelief in it is in much abundance.

Agree to disagree. In his own words someone praying for a sick person is pushing a belief on someone. So him implying that other people's beliefs are wrong, is in fact pushing what he believes to be true on others. I get being an intense skeptic but not to the point of treating people like they are stupid. I don't think being a skeptic is wrong and I'm not trying to make him believe in God. I'm not treating him like he is stupid for having his own beliefs that don't include God. That is his right, and I would ever disrespect someone's beliefs. And yes, more and more people are choosing not to believe in God for their own reasons. Does that make me sad? Yes. But it doesn't give me the right to belittle others. There's a difference in sharing your facts vs. presenting them in a way that is meant to make the other person feel less intelligent. But I guess there's no harm in shaming others or bullying them for that matter. Yep, no harm.
P.s Everytime he implies that I am gullible, hallucinating, or down right delusional...I try to be respectful. I don't make comments that would insult him like "I will pray for you!" That would be pushing my belief on him.
I feel very passionately about my beliefs, but I'm not here to offend anyone by them. And for the record no one on this forum has made me less intelligent, I am merely speaking up for anyone who might feel that way. I don't buy into the steretypes this world offers up...that if you believe in the paranormal you must be a nut, if you believe in God you must be a bible thumper, if you're rich you must be a snob, if you're poor you must be defective, or if you're pretty you must be stupid. Sorry, not buying it. : )
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04-01-2016, 11:51 AM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2016 12:03 PM by Krister.)
Post: #8
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 07:10 AM)Nix Wrote:  Ugh, more anti-religion propaganda. Why does everyone want to blame God for the things men do? I believe God gave us free will, otherwise we would be like robots. How loving would that be, to give life but no control? It wouldn't.

I think that is the message the tag line 'God isn't fixing this' is trying to portray, that only our will shall fix the problem.

(04-01-2016 07:10 AM)Nix Wrote:  Unfortunately this world is riddled with mentally ill people.

It is not mental illness, it is religious fervor. I am sure some of them are definitely mentally ill, but others are just doing what they were taught to do by people they trust for a divine authority.

Then again perhaps that is a strong case for insanity.

(04-01-2016 07:10 AM)Nix Wrote:  It truly befuddles me why people who don't believe in God try to find ways to discredit his existence.

I do not think anyone said it did not exist, just that it appears to have no interest in fixing this particular issue, despite many believing and appealing for it to do so.

(04-01-2016 10:20 AM)Nix Wrote:  And yes, more and more people are choosing not to believe in God for their own reasons. Does that make me sad? Yes. But it doesn't give me the right to belittle others.

I think all three books of the major Judeo-Christian-Islamic faiths would disagree with you and that it does give you varying degrees of scorn which you can level upon unbelievers, depending on the book. Of course they each have other parts which will say to do the opposite as well, standard religious double talk. It is almost like they were written by several different people who were making things up to fit their geo-political viewpoints and giving to them a god's authority.

(04-01-2016 10:20 AM)Nix Wrote:  There's a difference in sharing your facts vs. presenting them in a way that is meant to make the other person feel less intelligent.

It is not easy to debate religion with a believer without implying that they are somehow not intelligent.

No matter what you say you are still attacking something they have believed in for a very long time. Something they have likely questioned and re-evaluated at different intervals and then decided to stick with. The greater the amount of time they have believed and re-affirmed this ideal the greater the perceived insult will be, and not just to them, but to those who initially instilled it in them, usually their parents while they were just children, the most vulnerable and gullible stage of their lives. So not only have you insulted them and their parents but you have also made them feel like children again, getting duped by an older sibling about a monster under their bed.

It is a no win scenario, but so is a never ending stream of suicide bombers perpetuated by an extremely narrow rendition of a belief in an un-provable invisible wizard in the sky. Sometimes all that is left is to scream at the universes' insanity and then cry.
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04-01-2016, 12:34 PM
Post: #9
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 11:51 AM)Krister Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 07:10 AM)Nix Wrote:  Ugh, more anti-religion propaganda. Why does everyone want to blame God for the things men do? I believe God gave us free will, otherwise we would be like robots. How loving would that be, to give life but no control? It wouldn't.

I think that is the message the tag line 'God isn't fixing this' is trying to portray, that only our will shall fix the problem.

(04-01-2016 07:10 AM)Nix Wrote:  Unfortunately this world is riddled with mentally ill people.

It is not mental illness, it is religious fervor. I am sure some of them are definitely mentally ill, but others are just doing what they were taught to do by people they trust for a divine authority.

Then again perhaps that is a strong case for insanity.

(04-01-2016 07:10 AM)Nix Wrote:  It truly befuddles me why people who don't believe in God try to find ways to discredit his existence.

I do not think anyone said it did not exist, just that it appears to have no interest in fixing this particular issue, despite many believing and appealing for it to do so.

(04-01-2016 10:20 AM)Nix Wrote:  And yes, more and more people are choosing not to believe in God for their own reasons. Does that make me sad? Yes. But it doesn't give me the right to belittle others.

I think all three books of the major Judeo-Christian-Islamic faiths would disagree with you and that it does give you varying degrees of scorn which you can level upon unbelievers, depending on the book. Of course they each have other parts which will say to do the opposite as well, standard religious double talk. It is almost like they were written by several different people who were making things up to fit their geo-political viewpoints and giving to them a god's authority.

(04-01-2016 10:20 AM)Nix Wrote:  There's a difference in sharing your facts vs. presenting them in a way that is meant to make the other person feel less intelligent.

It is not easy to debate religion with a believer without implying that they are somehow not intelligent.

No matter what you say you are still attacking something they have believed in for a very long time. Something they have likely questioned and re-evaluated at different intervals and then decided to stick with. The greater the amount of time they have believed and re-affirmed this ideal the greater the perceived insult will be, and not just to them, but to those who initially instilled it in them, usually their parents while they were just children, the most vulnerable and gullible stage of their lives. So not only have you insulted them and their parents but you have also made them feel like children again, getting duped by an older sibling about a monster under their bed.

It is a no win scenario, but so is a never ending stream of suicide bombers perpetuated by an extremely narrow rendition of a belief in an un-provable invisible wizard in the sky. Sometimes all that is left is to scream at the universes' insanity and then cry.

Is all religon correct? No, I'm not implying that. Are some taught from an early age? Yes. Are some people in religon extremist or mentally ill? Yes. Does that mean that everyone who believes in God falls into that same category? No. My question is why does my belief in God bother you so much? I don't base my belief in God on books, I don't need facts to make me feel better about life. I don't need to convince you, so why do non-believers need to convince believers? Perhaps to make you feel better? I really don't know. You arent going to make me feel like a child again by busting out with misplaced philosophy. I don't think life is a fairy tale, so no need for false reassurance. I'm not going to make you feel ignorant for not believing in God, so please do me the same courtesy.
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04-01-2016, 02:53 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2016 03:06 PM by Krister.)
Post: #10
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  Are some taught from an early age? Yes.

Most, not some, statistically speaking. The longer someone believes something the less likely they are to change their minds on that belief, even when solid evidence is provided that their belief is wrong. This is called confirmation bias and is an innate flaw of the human creature, which makes the passing on of religion from parent to child a really poor choice if that religion contains violent themes and hate speech.

Link to study on confirmation bias:
http://psy2.ucsd.edu/~mckenzie/nickerson...onBias.pdf

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  Are some people in religon extremist or mentally ill? Yes.

Extremist: in that they actually do some of the nastier things their deity compels them to do.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  Does that mean that everyone who believes in God falls into that same category? No.

No one is accusing you of being a fundamentalist or a terrorist, if that is what you are worrying about. We are indeed talking about a small percentage of people.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  My question is why does my belief in God bother you so much?

Yours? No idea what you believe in personally. Organized religion as a whole on the other hand I have to say it is mostly the dead people it tends to create. But also the quiet stuff, oppression of ideas, lifestyles, genders, freedoms and so on and so forth.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I don't base my belief in God on books, I don't need facts to make me feel better about life.

So... you just make it up as you go? I guess that is sort of religion's thing.

But you do base it on a book, you would not know anything about your God if it was not written down somewhere at some point. You would not know of it if a lot of people had not been killed in it's name to make sure it kept getting written down over and over again in as many places that it could infect.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I don't need to convince you, so why do non-believers need to convince believers? Perhaps to make you feel better? I really don't know.

Ideally to prevent genocides. There have been a number of studies on the path to genocide that describe the requirements for one to be accepted and supported by a general community against another, it involves first dehumanizing the other community from an authoritative stand point.

Organized religion loves it some hate speech, it has a hero it needs a villain, whether it be the Jewish, homosexuals, unbelievers, adulterers, apostates or all the above. So when that system is in place there is always a chance for a nut job with enough power to just let the goons loose and put people in ovens by the boatloads and no one will care because it was accepted before it happened.

Yale Study on Genocides:
http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/8Sta...gpaper.pdf

Excerpt from that study: "The strongest antidote to genocide is justice."

Excerpt from the Bible: "If there is found among you, within any of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, a man or woman who ... has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden ... then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones." ~ Deuteronomy 17:2-5 English Standard Version, shortened down to the bullet points.

Justice.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  You arent going to make me feel like a child again by busting out with misplaced philosophy.

Well good, I am glad.

Though what is misplaced about it, exactly? Is it not believing in X deity, speaking out against it or a specific point that I made about the newspaper headline?

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I don't think life is a fairy tale, so no need for false reassurance.

False reassurance is a large part of faith. How would me convincing another not to believe in a deity be reassuring in any capacity?

O_o

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I'm not going to make you feel ignorant for not believing in God, so please do me the same courtesy.

You cannot make me feel ignorant because of that as Abrahamic texts as a form of illumination is a very archaic ideal. Though you yourself profess to not need such text, so you kind of just called yourself ignorant.

But it was not my intent to make you feel ignorant, as I mentioned in my previous post, it is just the nature of religious debate between a believer and a non-believer, it is always going to offend the believer.
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