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'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
04-01-2016, 03:30 PM
Post: #11
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 02:53 PM)Krister Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  Are some taught from an early age? Yes.

Most, not some, statistically speaking. The longer someone believes something the less likely they are to change their minds on that belief, even when solid evidence is provided that their belief is wrong. This is called confirmation bias and is an innate flaw of the human creature, which makes the passing on of religion from parent to child a really poor choice if that religion contains violent themes and hate speech.

Link to study on confirmation bias:
http://psy2.ucsd.edu/~mckenzie/nickerson...onBias.pdf

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  Are some people in religon extremist or mentally ill? Yes.

Extremist: in that they actually do some of the nastier things their deity compels them to do.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  Does that mean that everyone who believes in God falls into that same category? No.

No one is accusing you of being a fundamentalist or a terrorist, if that is what you are worrying about. We are indeed talking about a small percentage of people.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  My question is why does my belief in God bother you so much?

Yours? No idea what you believe in personally. Organized religion as a whole on the other hand I have to say it is mostly the dead people it tends to create. But also the quiet stuff, oppression of ideas, lifestyles, genders, freedoms and so on and so forth.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I don't base my belief in God on books, I don't need facts to make me feel better about life.

So... you just make it up as you go? I guess that is sort of religion's thing.

But you do base it on a book, you would not know anything about your God if it was not written down somewhere at some point. You would not know of it if a lot of people had not been killed in it's name to make sure it kept getting written down over and over again in as many places that it could infect.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I don't need to convince you, so why do non-believers need to convince believers? Perhaps to make you feel better? I really don't know.

Ideally to prevent genocides. There have been a number of studies on the path to genocide that describe the requirements for one to be accepted and supported by a general community against another, it involves first dehumanizing the other community from an authoritative stand point.

Organized religion loves it some hate speech, it has a hero it needs a villain, whether it be the Jewish, homosexuals, unbelievers, adulterers, apostates or all the above. So when that system is in place there is always a chance for a nut job with enough power to just let the goons loose and put people in ovens by the boatloads and no one will care because it was accepted before it happened.

Yale Study on Genocides:
http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/8Sta...gpaper.pdf

Excerpt from that study: "The strongest antidote to genocide is justice."

Excerpt from the Bible: "If there is found among you, within any of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, a man or woman who ... has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden ... then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones." ~ Deuteronomy 17:2-5 English Standard Version, shortened down to the bullet points.

Justice.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  You arent going to make me feel like a child again by busting out with misplaced philosophy.

Well good, I am glad.

Though what is misplaced about it, exactly? Is it not believing in X deity, speaking out against it or a specific point that I made about the newspaper headline?

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I don't think life is a fairy tale, so no need for false reassurance.

False reassurance is a large part of faith. How would me convincing another not to believe in a deity be reassuring in any capacity?

O_o

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I'm not going to make you feel ignorant for not believing in God, so please do me the same courtesy.

You cannot make me feel ignorant because of that as Abrahamic texts as a form of illumination is a very archaic ideal. Though you yourself profess to not need such text, so you kind of just called yourself ignorant.

But it was not my intent to make you feel ignorant, as I mentioned in my previous post, it is just the nature of religious debate between a believer and a non-believer, it is always going to offend the believer.
I'm sensing this took a lot of thought for you, although I could be wrong. Anti-religon rhetoric has been repeated many times and is not all that hard to memorize. I guess somewhat similar to religon teachings? As you say I am making things up as I go, maybe you are also formulating your own beliefs? Please tell me what book or proof there is that God does not exist? I am interested! Also interested in why you quote the bible when it should hold no value to you? Ah, yes, please do tell. Once again, another non-believer who simply cannot let it go. By all means, continue to prove why your non belief in God is so steadfast.
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04-01-2016, 03:48 PM
Post: #12
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
You have to understand, people need hope. That baby dying of cancer, those parents need to believe they will see their child in Heaven again, one day. We need hope that there is more after this life. That we just don't die and become food for worms.
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04-01-2016, 03:59 PM
Post: #13
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 03:30 PM)Nix Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 02:53 PM)Krister Wrote:  
(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  Are some taught from an early age? Yes.

Most, not some, statistically speaking. The longer someone believes something the less likely they are to change their minds on that belief, even when solid evidence is provided that their belief is wrong. This is called confirmation bias and is an innate flaw of the human creature, which makes the passing on of religion from parent to child a really poor choice if that religion contains violent themes and hate speech.

Link to study on confirmation bias:
http://psy2.ucsd.edu/~mckenzie/nickerson...onBias.pdf

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  Are some people in religon extremist or mentally ill? Yes.

Extremist: in that they actually do some of the nastier things their deity compels them to do.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  Does that mean that everyone who believes in God falls into that same category? No.

No one is accusing you of being a fundamentalist or a terrorist, if that is what you are worrying about. We are indeed talking about a small percentage of people.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  My question is why does my belief in God bother you so much?

Yours? No idea what you believe in personally. Organized religion as a whole on the other hand I have to say it is mostly the dead people it tends to create. But also the quiet stuff, oppression of ideas, lifestyles, genders, freedoms and so on and so forth.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I don't base my belief in God on books, I don't need facts to make me feel better about life.

So... you just make it up as you go? I guess that is sort of religion's thing.

But you do base it on a book, you would not know anything about your God if it was not written down somewhere at some point. You would not know of it if a lot of people had not been killed in it's name to make sure it kept getting written down over and over again in as many places that it could infect.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I don't need to convince you, so why do non-believers need to convince believers? Perhaps to make you feel better? I really don't know.

Ideally to prevent genocides. There have been a number of studies on the path to genocide that describe the requirements for one to be accepted and supported by a general community against another, it involves first dehumanizing the other community from an authoritative stand point.

Organized religion loves it some hate speech, it has a hero it needs a villain, whether it be the Jewish, homosexuals, unbelievers, adulterers, apostates or all the above. So when that system is in place there is always a chance for a nut job with enough power to just let the goons loose and put people in ovens by the boatloads and no one will care because it was accepted before it happened.

Yale Study on Genocides:
http://www.genocidewatch.org/images/8Sta...gpaper.pdf

Excerpt from that study: "The strongest antidote to genocide is justice."

Excerpt from the Bible: "If there is found among you, within any of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, a man or woman who ... has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the host of heaven, which I have forbidden ... then you shall bring out to your gates that man or woman who has done this evil thing, and you shall stone that man or woman to death with stones." ~ Deuteronomy 17:2-5 English Standard Version, shortened down to the bullet points.

Justice.

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  You arent going to make me feel like a child again by busting out with misplaced philosophy.

Well good, I am glad.

Though what is misplaced about it, exactly? Is it not believing in X deity, speaking out against it or a specific point that I made about the newspaper headline?

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I don't think life is a fairy tale, so no need for false reassurance.

False reassurance is a large part of faith. How would me convincing another not to believe in a deity be reassuring in any capacity?

O_o

(04-01-2016 12:34 PM)Nix Wrote:  I'm not going to make you feel ignorant for not believing in God, so please do me the same courtesy.

You cannot make me feel ignorant because of that as Abrahamic texts as a form of illumination is a very archaic ideal. Though you yourself profess to not need such text, so you kind of just called yourself ignorant.

But it was not my intent to make you feel ignorant, as I mentioned in my previous post, it is just the nature of religious debate between a believer and a non-believer, it is always going to offend the believer.
I'm sensing this took a lot of thought for you, although I could be wrong. Anti-religon rhetoric has been repeated many times and is not all that hard to memorize. I guess somewhat similar to religon teachings? As you say I am making things up as I go, maybe you are also formulating your own beliefs? Please tell me what book or proof there is that God does not exist? I am interested! Also interested in why you quote the bible when it should hold no value to you? Ah, yes, please do tell. Once again, another non-believer who simply cannot let it go. By all means, continue to prove why your non belief in God is so steadfast.

By the way you are not offending me, there's nothing you can say that holds any power over me to that extent.
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04-01-2016, 04:22 PM
Post: #14
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
Ok... I feel the need to weigh in on this Thread and most of what has been said....



UNR, as much as i don't like you for specific reasons, you posted this for its content, probably not expecting this flame war to happen. but then again you haven't been a moderator/admin yet and told people to behave so i am going to guess you are enjoying the fireworks. anyway.

UNR originally posted the link to a news article that reacted to a Senator who asked for "hopes and prayers" for the 14 dead people in the shooting. and the fact is, the news article is right to call him out on it, He is a SENATOR, and logically, should be able to bring this issue some enhanced results. Its not God's Job to fix problems like this... Keeping the earth spinning? That seems more like something that he would be more qualified for, as humans can't control the rotation of the Earth.

anyway, as far as everyone else is concerned:

Krister: You have a few valid points, and while I don't have physical evidence to support anything about "God" I can honestly say, the bible can honestly be observed at BEST, as half translated sentences passed down for several generations before they were written down, edited, retranslated, edited again, sent to leaders for approval, adjusted, Edited, censored, ect.

Nix: while i do appreciate what you are trying to say, learn when a fight isn't worth it. Some people literally can't sense Us. And as such, We know that they are going to do what skeptics do, they can't help that they were born that way. I will PM you with more specifics. but seriously, We can take care of ourselves. We don't need you to be a voice just yet. Its appreciated, but you are just stressing yourself out for no reason. There are bigger things to worry about.
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04-01-2016, 04:33 PM
Post: #15
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 04:22 PM)Nabu Wrote:  Ok... I feel the need to weigh in on this Thread and most of what has been said....



UNR, as much as i don't like you for specific reasons, you posted this for its content, probably not expecting this flame war to happen. but then again you haven't been a moderator/admin yet and told people to behave so i am going to guess you are enjoying the fireworks. anyway.

UNR originally posted the link to a news article that reacted to a Senator who asked for "hopes and prayers" for the 14 dead people in the shooting. and the fact is, the news article is right to call him out on it, He is a SENATOR, and logically, should be able to bring this issue some enhanced results. Its not God's Job to fix problems like this... Keeping the earth spinning? That seems more like something that he would be more qualified for, as humans can't control the rotation of the Earth.

anyway, as far as everyone else is concerned:

Krister: You have a few valid points, and while I don't have physical evidence to support anything about "God" I can honestly say, the bible can honestly be observed at BEST, as half translated sentences passed down for several generations before they were written down, edited, retranslated, edited again, sent to leaders for approval, adjusted, Edited, censored, ect.

Nix: while i do appreciate what you are trying to say, learn when a fight isn't worth it. Some people literally can't sense Us. And as such, We know that they are going to do what skeptics do, they can't help that they were born that way. I will PM you with more specifics. but seriously, We can take care of ourselves. We don't need you to be a voice just yet. Its appreciated, but you are just stressing yourself out for no reason. There are bigger things to worry about.

Thanks Nabu for your insight, but I will never give up the fight. Every fight that has just cause is worth it. However, I'm done here. I do recognize this is not the place for me.

Peace to all,
Nicole
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04-01-2016, 04:40 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2016 04:48 PM by Krister.)
Post: #16
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 03:30 PM)Nix Wrote:  I'm sensing this took a lot of thought for you, although I could be wrong.


I do give a few contiguous thoughts to what lifelong beliefs I am going to hold, yes.

(04-01-2016 03:30 PM)Nix Wrote:  Anti-religon rhetoric has been repeated many times and is not all that hard to memorize. I guess somewhat similar to religon teachings?

Minus the hate speech and violence.

(04-01-2016 03:30 PM)Nix Wrote:  As you say I am making things up as I go,

Well, you did literally write "I don't base my belief in God on books, I don't need facts to make me feel better about life."

So that is what it came off as.

(04-01-2016 03:30 PM)Nix Wrote:  maybe you are also formulating your own beliefs?

Indeed that is what we in the atheist-agnostic community get to do.

(04-01-2016 03:30 PM)Nix Wrote:  Please tell me what book or proof there is that God does not exist? I am interested!

You want me to prove a negative? That is like me asking you to prove that dragons do no exist.

There is no evidence that a god-creature exists at all. Everything we know about it is from the words of men and the words of men alone. I could write massive word walls on all the corrupted aspects of the Bible, the Torah, the Quran by human earthly ambitions, bad translations and just from the march of time itself.

Then there are all the contradictions on doctrine, so hard to keep the story straight when the text is that large and has so many different authors. And of course the scientific errors in the texts are also quite numerous.

Evidence is enough that how poorly managed it is, the Judeo-Christian-Islamic churches are absolute train-wrecks. This is a religion that has been dividing itself since it's conception. This is the only method with which we have to know it by and it is absolutely fubar... the human rights record alone for each is appalling. When you walk into a friend's house and there is feces on the walls, urine on the floors, blood stains on the table and none of the chairs match each other, you walk out and get a new friend.

Yet people still die and kill every day in it's name. So silly, ever think to maybe confirm it exists before you send someone to the grave for it?

Anyway, no one has got time for that, to write it or read it all.

(04-01-2016 03:30 PM)Nix Wrote:  Also interested in why you quote the bible when it should hold no value to you?

What are you talking about? Holy Texts are organized religion's biggest weakness. They are thousands of years old... this is the modern age, we have better information available, the earth is not flat, the moon does not have it's own light, the stars are not lamps just outside the atmosphere that fight jinn, the Earth could not have formed before the sun nor is the Earth 5,000 years old (although the latter was more of a deduction made by some denominations based on Biblical text).

(04-01-2016 03:30 PM)Nix Wrote:  Ah, yes, please do tell. Once again, another non-believer who simply cannot let it go.

What are you talking about? You started this debate in a thread not even about your particular religious branch. I cannot let it go? You are right here with me.

Gawp

(04-01-2016 03:30 PM)Nix Wrote:  By all means, continue to prove why your non belief in God is so steadfast.

lol
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04-01-2016, 05:07 PM
Post: #17
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
Just really wanted to say thanks to everyone I've talked to here. I came here thinking I wouldn't be judged for my beliefs but it seems the world will never change and I find myself saying things I normally wouldn't in order to defend my belief in God. Not the first or last time to be sure. I was bullied all through out my high school years for being pretty but dirt poor. I have been bullied about my belief in God by people I know as well as here. No more. I am exhausted by it. Not being dramatic, just tired.
Hopefully UglyNRude can help me deactivate my account.

Nicole
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04-01-2016, 05:09 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2016 05:27 PM by Krister.)
Post: #18
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 03:48 PM)Itheblaze Wrote:  You have to understand, people need hope. That baby dying of cancer, those parents need to believe they will see their child in Heaven again, one day. We need hope that there is more after this life. That we just don't die and become food for worms.
I understand that but certain religious denominations actually refuse medical treatment altogether and cause kids to die:

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-healt...om-n320031
http://time.com/8750/faith-healing-paren...lds-death/
http://www.masskids.org/index.php/religi...ild-deaths
(04-01-2016 05:07 PM)Nix Wrote:  Just really wanted to say thanks to everyone I've talked to here. I came here thinking I wouldn't be judged for my beliefs but it seems the world will never change and I find myself saying things I normally wouldn't in order to defend my belief in God. Not the first or last time to be sure. I was bullied all through out my high school years for being pretty but dirt poor. I have been bullied about my belief in God by people I know as well as here. No more. I am exhausted by it. Not being dramatic, just tired.
Hopefully UglyNRude can help me deactivate my account.

Nicole
Huh, strange... I had the opposite experience. I grew up in a very religious household and found all the rules and beatings for breaking them a little much.

I am not sure what is happening here, all I did was make some observations about organized religion in a thread about it. If I insulted you I apologize, that was not my intention.
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04-01-2016, 05:30 PM
Post: #19
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
Most mainstream churches haven't gone over the edge, ok. We're not talking about the rattlesnake handlers in the name of the Lord Jesus here. There's millions of church goers taking their children to hospitals but still praying and hoping for best.
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04-01-2016, 06:11 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2016 06:17 PM by Krister.)
Post: #20
RE: 'GOD ISN'T FIXING THIS'
(04-01-2016 05:30 PM)Itheblaze Wrote:  Most mainstream churches haven't gone over the edge, ok. We're not talking about the rattlesnake handlers in the name of the Lord Jesus here. There's millions of church goers taking their children to hospitals but still praying and hoping for best.

That is very true, most live fairly secular lives, but those righteous words are still there, and a drum can be made to beat to them at any time and turn a moderate into a holy warrior in a time of political or economic crisis to justify for example the internment, expulsion or worse of all Muslims as an answer to why we just are not 'winning' any more to paraphrase a recent popular U.S. presidential candidate.

It is a language and dialogue problem. Language can lead to violence, to feeling a certain criminal action is okay because something quantitative is in an authoritarian holy text.

"Never Again" only happens if we remove the hateful and oppressive dialogue from the mouths of our deities.
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