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Where do all the souls come from? LOL
#1
So......I used to believe a bit in the notion or reincarnation. I mean, Hell, a lot of it made sense: the "Karma" part, for example, appealed to my sense of order, and being a science guy, I liked the whole idea of balance among the good and bad energy. "What goes around comes aroiund." Yin and Yang. All that.

And, as you know: the vast majority of things in Nature occur in cycles: the Water Cycle; birth and death; seeds growing into plants and treees and flowers and then producing more seeds and pods, etc. The Weather; The Seasons.

All Cyclical.

So...yeah...in some ways it made sense. And I could see it as being even science-based, with the energy thing--even AC electricity is cyclical!. I also liked the idea of Reincarnation because it did not require a god..whom I do not believe in. Or a living jesus, whom I think was merely a mortal rabbi and died back around 32 AD.

BUT!!! Then I was faced with a huge problem in logic for the idea of Reincarnation:

Where do all the New Souls come from?

That is: there are now far more people living on the planet then ever before: about 7 Billion. So..even if all thw souls of the past living persons who have died were to be put "in the mix" of Reincarnation, there would not be enough to fulfill the new birthrate.

There simply are not enough souls to enter what the Buddhists call the "Samsara." the cycle of birth-death-rebirth.

So, are there any believers in Reincarnation who can answer this conundrum?

Thank you.
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#2
Who says only people have souls? And further that people only come back as people?
Technically we are out numbered by bugs for one.

Maybe souls cycle around more then just our planet? Some may like staying in the ethereal realm only visit now and again. Maybe there is a waiting que like the DMV.

Or as I view it everything has a soul, but the soul is just the energy that makes you. And in that you may not always be you.In short a expanded view of string theory. To simplify there is a limit of water on earth, but we have plenty(regardless of how we actually use/miss use it). It recyles itself. In that lets say Galileo he peed over his lifetime, well recycled over the years you may have drank an atom or two that temporarily was part of him. So all these parts diverge and converge over and over without end.
"Studies Show...Intelligent girls are more depressed, because they know what the world is really like.....She knows in society she's either a Devil or an Angel with no in between. She speaks in the third person, so that she can forget that she's me." ~Emily Autumn
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#3
LOL---that makes absolutely zero sense.

And you obviously know nothing of String or M-Brane Theory. But please feel free to correct me if you do and once again explain how it has ANYTHING to do with the possibility of recycled souls.

Galileo peeing? Really? So what? How does us in the rare chance of ingesting a molecule of his urine equate to the problem of a shortage of souls for Samsara? Galilieo's pee does not fulfill our liquid intake requirements. Thus the comparison is inaccurate. My OP conundrum has to do with a drastic "energy shortage" (if you will..instead of using the term "soul.")

And if there indeed is no such thing as a soul than the Buddhist's version of reincarnation pretty much goes down for the count. As the whole purpose of their Samsara is to keep coming back till you learn your lesson. Right?

Ergo..no soul, no ability to enter the cycle to learn the Lesson and finally attain Nirvana.

The whole insect thing is, yes, in line with the Hindu version, not the Buddhists'. As the latter do not believe in what is called "transmigration." (For the record neither do I: that notion is even MORE flawed on a logical base. Reason being: how do oyu get back to a human level once you were relegated to, say, a snail?

By leaving good slime? LOL.

I would be glad to talk physics with you sometime, perhaps via a PM? For starters: what do you think of the recent discovery of the Higgs Boson? Do you believe it fulfills the expectations of it being the God Particle?

Are you familiar with Rupert Sheldrake's idea of Morphic Resonance? Thoughts? Relations to M-Brane Hypothesis?
Let me know. I did my Master's Thesis on a variation of Sheldrake's Morphic Field ideas.
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#4
Here you go :3

http://www.metatech.org/07/fairies_elves...rolls.html
No matter how bleak or how hopeless, No matter how hard or how far
You can never break my conation, Tear the will apart from desire
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#5
My Hypothesis for this is very simple and logical. You will easily understand the theory behind this.
Lets start with beginning of animal evolution. Million of species and all in different quantity, like insects in billions and humans in thousands only.
Now with time wheel, the scenario changed, humans developed and encroached other species natural habitat and space. As a result now the current situation is more humans(in billions) and less number of other species.
And you can also see this effect in human behavior, some are of different nature, some are nice and calm like herbivore, on the other hand some are necessarily aggressive like wild beast, or big cats like lion, tiger.
Hope you get the logic and science behind this. Sometimes the truth is in front of our eyes we just need a fresh perspective.
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#6
DA,
I guess I wasn't clear. The past few days for me have been pretty long due to my everywhere work hours and helping two friends out actively on family matters. As well as there are two issues within my own house that need tending. Ive pretty much been all over the place. In cases like this I random cloud talk, due to my ADHD I don't always explain the logic leaps.
Nothing of what I put was string theory. String theory has us potentially connected everything, thus some calling it M theory, The Mother of all.
Now there are several variations which may eventually all be one theory. In that there are potentially many dimensions layered together, where anything that could happen does. And its all together and at once. This is the side I was speaking on.

Then I took a sharp turn to the philosophical. Now what I was on is more between strings and bosens or something that exists between. That these pieces are what in my best science guess is what souls come from.
The Galileo bit was trying to simplify this. No we are not purely pee of Galileo. And that is not enough to make us, but its like puzzles, you need all the pieces.But that what we are cycles like water. Its not always the same thing but it always exists in some form. Those pieces can reform into new things, they might not even be water. So in some ways it could be a universal soul of sorts(if that makes sense).

This would not necessarily prove any particular beliefs on reincarnation but more that there is a form of energy that could be termed a soul and that its existence is not defined neatly but something on these lines could account for reincarnation and past life memories.
"Studies Show...Intelligent girls are more depressed, because they know what the world is really like.....She knows in society she's either a Devil or an Angel with no in between. She speaks in the third person, so that she can forget that she's me." ~Emily Autumn
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#7
(03-19-2015, 11:26 PM)satyavrat Wrote: My Hypothesis for this is very simple and logical. You will easily understand the theory behind this.
Lets start with beginning of animal evolution. Million of species and all in different quantity, like insects in billions and humans in thousands only.
Now with time wheel, the scenario changed, humans developed and encroached other species natural habitat and space. As a result now the current situation is more humans(in billions) and less number of other species.
And you can also see this effect in human behavior, some are of different nature, some are nice and calm like herbivore, on the other hand some are necessarily aggressive like wild beast, or big cats like lion, tiger.
Hope you get the logic and science behind this. Sometimes the truth is in front of our eyes we just need a fresh perspective.

Mmm..nice basic primer on the Evolutionary process--a theory I totall believe in, BTW.

But I am not getting how it relates to my OP question regarding the problem of a "soul shortage" to fuel the Reincarnation process?
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#8
I'm not so sure that I believe each soul gets reincarnated. Maybe some do if their purpose was not realized. Perhaps souls are a finite part of the universe/multiverse and are sent to wherever they need to be to compensate for flourishing new life. We have had extinction events on our planet. Other planets would have them as well. Currently the human population is exploding. Maybe God is playing a cosmic game of robbing Peter to pay Paul? I guess we will find out at some part of the soul's evolution. Not knowing - definitely sux.
Here is an interesting blog.

http://personalityspirituality.net/artic...-35-steps/
The Egg

By: Andy Weir



You were on your way home when you died.

It was a car accident. Nothing particularly remarkable, but fatal nonetheless. You left behind a wife and two children. It was a painless death. The EMTs tried their best to save you, but to no avail. Your body was so utterly shattered you were better off, trust me.

And that’s when you met me.

“What… what happened?” You asked. “Where am I?”

“You died,” I said, matter-of-factly. No point in mincing words.

“There was a… a truck and it was skidding…”

“Yup,” I said.

“I… I died?”

“Yup. But don’t feel bad about it. Everyone dies,” I said.

You looked around. There was nothingness. Just you and me. “What is this place?” You asked. “Is this the afterlife?”

“More or less,” I said.

“Are you god?” You asked.

“Yup,” I replied. “I’m God.”

“My kids… my wife,” you said.

“What about them?”

“Will they be all right?”

“That’s what I like to see,” I said. “You just died and your main concern is for your family. That’s good stuff right there.”

You looked at me with fascination. To you, I didn’t look like God. I just looked like some man. Or possibly a woman. Some vague authority figure, maybe. More of a grammar school teacher than the almighty.

“Don’t worry,” I said. “They’ll be fine. Your kids will remember you as perfect in every way. They didn’t have time to grow contempt for you. Your wife will cry on the outside, but will be secretly relieved. To be fair, your marriage was falling apart. If it’s any consolation, she’ll feel very guilty for feeling relieved.”

“Oh,” you said. “So what happens now? Do I go to heaven or hell or something?”

“Neither,” I said. “You’ll be reincarnated.”

“Ah,” you said. “So the Hindus were right,”

“All religions are right in their own way,” I said. “Walk with me.”

You followed along as we strode through the void. “Where are we going?”

“Nowhere in particular,” I said. “It’s just nice to walk while we talk.”

“So what’s the point, then?” You asked. “When I get reborn, I’ll just be a blank slate, right? A baby. So all my experiences and everything I did in this life won’t matter.”

“Not so!” I said. “You have within you all the knowledge and experiences of all your past lives. You just don’t remember them right now.”

I stopped walking and took you by the shoulders. “Your soul is more magnificent, beautiful, and gigantic than you can possibly imagine. A human mind can only contain a tiny fraction of what you are. It’s like sticking your finger in a glass of water to see if it’s hot or cold. You put a tiny part of yourself into the vessel, and when you bring it back out, you’ve gained all the experiences it had.

“You’ve been in a human for the last 48 years, so you haven’t stretched out yet and felt the rest of your immense consciousness. If we hung out here for long enough, you’d start remembering everything. But there’s no point to doing that between each life.”

“How many times have I been reincarnated, then?”

“Oh lots. Lots and lots. An in to lots of different lives.” I said. “This time around, you’ll be a Chinese peasant girl in 540 AD.”

“Wait, what?” You stammered. “You’re sending me back in time?”

“Well, I guess technically. Time, as you know it, only exists in your universe. Things are different where I come from.”

“Where you come from?” You said.

“Oh sure,” I explained “I come from somewhere. Somewhere else. And there are others like me. I know you’ll want to know what it’s like there, but honestly you wouldn’t understand.”

“Oh,” you said, a little let down. “But wait. If I get reincarnated to other places in time, I could have interacted with myself at some point.”

“Sure. Happens all the time. And with both lives only aware of their own lifespan you don’t even know it’s happening.”

“So what’s the point of it all?”

“Seriously?” I asked. “Seriously? You’re asking me for the meaning of life? Isn’t that a little stereotypical?”

“Well it’s a reasonable question,” you persisted.

I looked you in the eye. “The meaning of life, the reason I made this whole universe, is for you to mature.”

“You mean mankind? You want us to mature?”

“No, just you. I made this whole universe for you. With each new life you grow and mature and become a larger and greater intellect.”

“Just me? What about everyone else?”

“There is no one else,” I said. “In this universe, there’s just you and me.”

You stared blankly at me. “But all the people on earth…”

“All you. Different incarnations of you.”

“Wait. I’m everyone!?”

“Now you’re getting it,” I said, with a congratulatory slap on the back.

“I’m every human being who ever lived?”

“Or who will ever live, yes.”

“I’m Abraham Lincoln?”

“And you’re John Wilkes Booth, too,” I added.

“I’m Hitler?” You said, appalled.

“And you’re the millions he killed.”

“I’m Jesus?”

“And you’re everyone who followed him.”

You fell silent.

“Every time you victimized someone,” I said, “you were victimizing yourself. Every act of kindness you’ve done, you’ve done to yourself. Every happy and sad moment ever experienced by any human was, or will be, experienced by you.”

You thought for a long time.

“Why?” You asked me. “Why do all this?”

“Because someday, you will become like me. Because that’s what you are. You’re one of my kind. You’re my child.”

“Whoa,” you said, incredulous. “You mean I’m a god?”

“No. Not yet. You’re a fetus. You’re still growing. Once you’ve lived every human life throughout all time, you will have grown enough to be born.”

“So the whole universe,” you said, “it’s just…”

“An egg.” I answered. “Now it’s time for you to move on to your next life.”

And I sent you on your way.

http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html
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#9
D.A. How can you be so dismissive of a very logical theory? Everything we need in life is recycled. Air, water, food ,waste. plant nutrients . We could not survive unless there was a constant turn over of basic life sustaining elements. Now why should the life force itself not be subject to these parameters?. What is the life force.? Is it purely electrical energy? Is electricity sentient? I suggest to you that it is more complex but nevertheless flows amongst us all. If all the building blocks for life were present in one spot and struck by lightning for billions and billions of years, all that would happen is a scattering of the elements. Nothing is going to make a rock turn into a virus . Only life can make new life. Just look around you .Look at the complexity of the flora and fauna. A result of an accident? Nonsense! Accidents usually cause chaos not order, You say you are a mathematician. How does everything fit together ? what are the chances of perfection? Now don't you dare to give me a lecture and say It was all natural selection. The survival of the fittest. We know that that is the outcome in some cases . Evolution is a sound theory and no doubt played its part in the scheme of things What you are missing is the scheme of things. Planned by a space age super intelligence.
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#10
^^^^^

So you are really gonna sit there and call "Reincarnation" a very logical theory?

Do you realize that 98% of all biologists and neurologists and, hell, any type of discipline in the sciences would disagree with you?

The problem of the souls being supplied for a growing number of people was not answered.

Do you realize we have come very, very close to creating life from non-organic materials in the laboratory? By simulating conditions that wre thought to prevail 3.5 billion years ago when we began our journey as single celled amoebas in the warm, primordial ooze? True, we have not yet created DNA in the lab, but we HAVE created amino acids, which are the precursors of it. IN time we will get the DNA and rNA (messenger DNA) molecules.

Yes--as I said in a previous post; most things in nature are cyclical. But you cannot in all logic equate the "soul" with being a natural entity. Ity has never been measured, or even detected, and most neurologists--people who deal with homo sapien nervous systems all the time, in fact deny its existence and can offer scientific and physiological explanations for all of our sentient qualities. With brain-mapping technology and CT Imagary like PET scans we can even show you the part of your brain where you invented god. And we can, through electronic stimulation to the specific parts of your brain, replicate in you any emotion you wish: from anger to love to what some people call a god experience. The necessary mechanism to enable people to experience the symptoms they claim during NDE's can and have also been replicated and explained.

"Rocks into viruses?" LOL Who ever claimed such a thing? But a rock could indeed carry a virus which would, although inert at the time, would "come alive" once it passed into your system and began hijacking your cells so as to replicate and possibly killl you.

Evolution was no accident. It is based on trial and error, and needs no designer. "Replication-variation-selection." That is all it takes. And it takes a long time. Ifyou were to take a photograph of each generation of Man, beginning from our eukaryote days 3.5 billion years ago, and line those pics on top of each other, in a selection comprising from then until now, the stack of paper-thickness photos would be FOUR MILES HIGH!! That is how many generations: How many times you would have to say, "my great, great, great, great, etc."

And yes--you were wrong again is saying that order cannot come from chaos. It does all the time. Are you aware that EVERY genetic mutation which we underwent from our days as australopithecus afarensis seven million years ago (the first primate species that could be considered humanoid) was RANDOM? Yes..but if the mutation turned-out to be advantagous it was "adopted" or "selected" so pretty soon those that had it thrived and replicated until it was the norm.

Undesirable mutations were "selected out" as Evo Biologists say.

99% if ALL SPECIES that have ever existed on Earth are extinct. And homo sapien sapiens are the "last ape standing" our of about 27 or so species of homo. So in that regard we are special. And it all came form disorder.

The old adage that creationists who deny Evolution like to quote, "It is a law of thermodynamics that a disorder can only increase" is out of context and also simply a misquote.

That Law pertains to "closed systems" only. Ergo, not us and the Earth during Evolution, which was of course open and being fueled by the elements, like air, water, sunlight, carbon dioxide, carbon, etc.

OK--you probably have stopped reading by now. as many people just cannot handle the thought of a world with no need for a creator. But I have just tried to give you a very basic lesson in Evolutionary Biology. (which, btw, also needs no unproved and spurious method of "reincarnation" in order to function.)

You probably don't want to argue science with me. LOL--I am pretty well trained. And the vast, vast majority of professional scientists agree with all I have just told you.

But hell, who knows. maybe we are all wrong and YOU are privy to the inside scoop?

LOL.

Peace.

http://skepdic.com/reincarn.html
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