Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Pagans and Evil
03-01-2015, 06:51 AM
Post: #41
RE: Pagans and Evil
Chris,
ChaosRose is in many ways right, at least in my opinion. There are many flaws with mainstream wicca. Ive found many following it without knowing a lick of the history. They wonder why when they say they worship the pentagram people think they are devil worshipers(Ive had at least a dozen in my life that have made this comment). Many get into magic for what I feel are the wrong reasons(love potions, luck charms, beauty spells, and to curse people) Mind you this is not everyone but Ive seen more aiming to missuse then use it to help.

You mentioned the butterfly effect yourself, you cannot guarantee every bit of energy you put out. There are always ripples in the energy. For good or bad depends on your perspective. How big the ripple depends on your skill and what you are doing.

As for your opinion on the tone of ChaosRose, this is the internet, tone doesn't exist. Words I choose that may sound concerned/caring may come off as nasty/rude its all about how you read it. Resorting to name calling doesn't really help your point.

Where did you get that she put you lost your magic not being in a coven? Because I didn't read anything that said that....

Main point you have been studying a few years(3-5? As there is no precise number to that word) Ive been looking into religions, magic and myth since I was 12-13(Im 30 now) and I still feel I can learn, I don't have all the answers. Not everyone is Wiccan, ChaosRose isn't and Im certainly not. This doesn't mean we can't understand the good points but we are not blind to the flaws.

You also say on white, grey and black magic. Magic is not good or bad it is the user and their intent. I could cast a "black" magic spell and do it for good. And last note by its own code wicca is "good" magic, so if you were doing "bad/dark" things you were not infact practicing wiccan magic.

"Studies Show...Intelligent girls are more depressed, because they know what the world is really like.....She knows in society she's either a Devil or an Angel with no in between. She speaks in the third person, so that she can forget that she's me." ~Emily Autumn
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2015, 10:56 PM
Post: #42
RE: Pagans and Evil
(01-01-2015 10:01 PM)Ysbryd Wrote:  Nature has a balance between positive/negative; light/dark; good/evil. Call it whatever you want. Evil is not a Christian concept. It simply means something that's "profoundly immoral and malevolent". So yes, we do believe there is evil in the world. Some of us also believe in angels.

Absolutely. The thing with modern wiccans/pagans is there are many variations of beliefs but in general (and also to respond to the original post) we have our deities our, as you said light/dark, positive/negative, etc. I doubt one would find a belief whether clinical or spiritual that does not have a concept of each of these, or else everything would be great! Or horrific I guess however you wanna put a spin on it.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
03-21-2015, 07:19 PM (This post was last modified: 03-21-2015 07:27 PM by Der Ankläger.)
Post: #43
RE: Pagans and Evil
(01-01-2015 09:16 PM)HVB Wrote:  I'm only new to this forum so this may have come up before, but I was wondering how other pagans/wiccans here have come to terms with the idea of evil? Considering that there is no devil or satan.

I have often theorized that 'demons' and other 'evil' entities were types of thought forms. In the case of tibetan tulpas for example, one persons dedication and meditation can bring about a materialisation of a thought form. If I were to follow that logic I would assume that the belief in evil and an output of negative energies could cause an entity to take on a life of it's own, yet still be a man-made entity (to put it as simply as possible). Silver Ravenwolf is one author who writes about evil in a similar way.

To take it one step further, if this were the case could we not theorize the same for goddesses? After thousands of years of different cultures beleiving and worshipping a deity, could this act alone be enough to produce an entity we believe to be a goddess?

Sorry if this is a whole lotta rambling but it is something I love to think about and I was wondering if anyone else had similar/contrary thoughts?


You make the statement "there is no Devil or Satan" as assuredly as if you were saying, "The sky is blue."

So I would respectfully ask you how you can be so certain?

Anyway..you are partially correct in your assessment as to the causation of why people are inflicted with demons: it does stem from their own thought processes. Contrary to popular belief--mostly gleaned from TV and movies about exorcism--a Demon will not imbue a person unless they give them an "inroad." A "portal." This can be a conscious or a subconscious thought process. Or even by committing certain acts.

And then once invited, the Demons will "feast" upon the thoughts, and the whole thing becomes sort of a perpetual motion machine, growing and getting stronger. And it should be remembered that, even though a person has to somehow "invite" a demon to enter their lives, once it does it may not go away simply of the person wants it to.

Sometimes by then it is too late.

But there IS a "fountainhead" of sorts (my words) from which these Demons exude. That is the Entity some call Satan. Or the Devil. Or Lucifer, or Menmoch, or what-have-you.

"The greatest trick the Devil ever played was getting some people to believe that He didn't exist." ---Keyser Soze

“I have never understood why people who can swallow the enormous improbability of a personal God boggle at a personal Devil.”
― Graham Greene
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
03-23-2015, 10:47 AM (This post was last modified: 03-23-2015 11:11 AM by ChaosRose.)
Post: #44
RE: Pagans and Evil

You make the statement "there is no Devil or Satan" as assuredly as if you were saying, "The sky is blue."

So I would respectfully ask you how you can be so certain?


You do the same thing when you scream that YHVH can't possibly exist. He most certainly exists in your world, where he comes up every 5 minutes in your thoughts.

If you're harboring baggage from back when you were Christian, you really can just put it down.
(03-01-2015 03:49 AM)chris74 Wrote:  
(02-28-2015 11:54 AM)ChaosRose Wrote:  
Uh yes when I was in a coven we took the rede seriously, it is good sound advice, if nothing more. Oathbound and in every book out there or a google search away. (?). Your post comes off very matter of fact, lofty sounding and arrogant, and its ignorantly dangerous.

I was just trying to respect the fact some consider a Witch and a Pagan 2 totally different things. A Pagan, as I know it is more in tune with nature and natural order and cycles. A witch in my experience, even before I was in a coven, was to use ones will and intent to influence an outcome. . That is your personal experience and its pretty naive to say 'no such thing as a natural witch'. Some people are strong genetically some are not, some go to the gym. Same thing. I am sure even you recognize some people are far more suited to witchcraft than others. Or people that have things happen long before they understand any of it, which was my situation.

So I don't suddenly 'magically' lose my abilities because im out of a coven. And if you have no idea what the outcome of what you are doing is, or will be, maybe it is actually you who should cease to practice. Seriously...

Actually, my post is pretty well-informed. The stuff you find in the books isn't the same as the oath bound material, and any real Wiccan will tell you that. They're not going to share the oath bound material with you, though.

I'm hardly young and naive. I've been involved with the occult for probably at least twice the amount of years you have been alive (judging by the maturity of your post).

I'm solitary, so I never implied that you couldn't be a witch out of a coven. You can't be a Wiccan without being initiated, because it is an initiatory orthopraxic path.
They wonder why when they say they worship the pentagram people think they are devil worshipers(Ive had at least a dozen in my life that have made this comment).

I've even come across people who insisted they were wearing the Star of David. They weren't.

*facepalm*
I think the problem lies in equating Wicca with witchcraft. You can be a witch without being Wiccan, but you can't be a Wiccan just because you read a few Lewellyn books. There are rules. There are degrees to be earned. And honestly, it's arrogant and insulting to any real Wiccan who has gone through years of study for a teenager who has skimmed a few of these horrid excuses for books, to then think they know everything.
if you have no idea what the outcome of what you are doing is, or will be, maybe it is actually you who should cease to practice. Seriously...

Like I said before...everything we do, and even the things we choose not to do create ripples. No one really knows the full outcome of any of it. You could try to help someone and have it completely backfire. On the other hand, someone could be hexed and the outcome might actually end up teaching them a valuable life lesson.

If you think you are fully aware of the outcome of every single thing you do, then you are the naive one. You can be loaded to the hilt with good intentions, and still create chaos. Innumerable people do it every day.

I think the best thing you can do is actually study what you're claiming to be. If you want to be Wiccan, then go and put the work into it.
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-06-2015, 07:41 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2015 07:46 PM by Der Ankläger.)
Post: #45
RE: Pagans and Evil
Hello?

No retort?

I t'ink I scared the lad off.

Or at least made 'im reconsider his OP t'oughts on Der Anklager! LOL

Hail.

“I have never understood why people who can swallow the enormous improbability of a personal God boggle at a personal Devil.”
― Graham Greene
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-06-2015, 08:53 PM
Post: #46
RE: Pagans and Evil
^^^^I think you need to learn to read posted dates.^^^^
People cycle out quick.
Side note have you recently decided to become British?

"Studies Show...Intelligent girls are more depressed, because they know what the world is really like.....She knows in society she's either a Devil or an Angel with no in between. She speaks in the third person, so that she can forget that she's me." ~Emily Autumn
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-06-2015, 09:55 PM
Post: #47
RE: Pagans and Evil
Thought form creation sounds good for part of this reality
butt it is only 33% of manifestation
And they only use your energy
(The yellow define rain and take it from you with all your memories and turn it into there own
Where you will only think of them (good or bad)
And they will take your devine inspiration and you won't have any more original thoughts only of them
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
04-10-2015, 05:57 AM
Post: #48
RE: Pagans and Evil
The pentagram parallels the golden mean ratio that is irrational
The golden mean powers as they ascend get closer to a whole number, which whole numbers form the Lucas series which with the Fibonacci series forms the golden mean series
I heard they say the golden mean is found in nature, a director of shape, can't recall.
Anyway, The Star Of David- two triangles, if you like, is arrived at also by the use of a certain number of powers of the golden mean with another arithmetical operation applied, which then elicits the two triangles of The Star Of David.
I think symbols work via group mind.
This then puts The Star Of David far ahead of other known symbols, with respect to group mind, magic, power or what one goggles to be the thing of them there symbols.
But only if known, as humans make the power via minds
I need to talk with a rabbi mathematician magician
There's more "stuff"
It's endless
Almost
Enough
Find all posts by this user
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 


Forum Jump:


User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)