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What's the difference between Paganism, Wicca & Witchcraft?
07-06-2014, 06:45 PM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2014 06:46 PM by ChaosRose.)
Post: #21
RE: What's the difference between Paganism, Wicca & Witchcraft?
(07-06-2014 06:40 PM)pix Wrote:  Last note upon looking at your link..this appears to just be a small offshoot confined to Cambodia which isn't Buddhism in it's true state, it was (if you read through) integrated with the locals belief systems to become more acceptable to the region. The normal practice is to cultivate their own inner cosmic power and become one with the cosmos.

If you wanna think two whole countries are a small offshoot, then that's fine.

From wiki on Cambodia...

"With a population of over 14.8 million, Cambodia is the 70th most populous country in the world."

I also know people who are Buddhist here who still do folk magic. So there's probably a lot more people than you're aware of. And just because you might feel there's a contradiction, they aren't likely to stop doing what they're doing.

It's fine if you don't want to do folk magic. I'm just saying that people do. It can be practiced along with, or in the absence of...any religion or philosophy. Including Buddhism.
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07-06-2014, 06:55 PM
Post: #22
RE: What's the difference between Paganism, Wicca & Witchcraft?
In terms of Buddhism regardless of the population the region is still only a small offshoot from the main stem. Buddhism there follows more Hinduism path (as it stated) than the Buddhist regardless of the label. No matter what religion/philosophy there are very few that stay to the pure path. Again it is what suits the person.

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07-06-2014, 06:59 PM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2014 07:01 PM by ChaosRose.)
Post: #23
RE: What's the difference between Paganism, Wicca & Witchcraft?
(07-06-2014 06:55 PM)pix Wrote:  In terms of Buddhism regardless of the population the region is still only a small offshoot from the main stem. Buddhism there follows more Hinduism path (as it stated) than the Buddhist regardless of the label. No matter what religion/philosophy there are very few that stay to the pure path. Again it is what suits the person.

Looks like this pretty much happens everywhere. Link not working, but there is info about a similar syncretic belief system in Tibet.
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07-06-2014, 07:11 PM
Post: #24
RE: What's the difference between Paganism, Wicca & Witchcraft?
O.K. the "magic" if you want to call it that is the cultivation of the cosmic power within and attained mainly through meditation...it's far removed from witchcraft or sorcery.
http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism...atural.htm
You may want to check this one out? they do not endorse the use of spells.

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07-06-2014, 08:29 PM (This post was last modified: 07-06-2014 08:36 PM by ChaosRose.)
Post: #25
RE: What's the difference between Paganism, Wicca & Witchcraft?
(07-06-2014 07:11 PM)pix Wrote:  O.K. the "magic" if you want to call it that is the cultivation of the cosmic power within and attained mainly through meditation...it's far removed from witchcraft or sorcery.
http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism...atural.htm
You may want to check this one out? they do not endorse the use of spells.

It's not like religions and philosophies develop in a vacuum, independently of one another. When Buddhism entered Tibet, there were already indigenous beliefs in place, and it did not attempt to suppress them.

Their spells are still indeed for many mundane purposes.

I suggest you look up Bon: A Heterodox System. I'd post a link, but it doesn't seem to be working for some reason.

"In early, records, "bon" denotes a particular type of priest who performed rituals to propitiate local spirits and ensure the well-being of the dead in the afterlife. It is only much later, under the influence of Buddhism, that "Bon" comes to designate pre-Buddhist Tibetan religious practices in general. It should also be noted that the rituals performed by these early priests as reported in the old records appear to differ substantially from contemporary Bon. As Per Kvaerne notes, for example, they were by all accounts concerned with taking care of the dead through ceremonies intended to ensure their safe journey to the afterlife and their material prosperity after arrival.1 The rituals of the bon often involved sacrificing animals (mainly horses, yaks, and sheep), making offerings of food and drink, and burying the dead with precious jewels, the benefits of which were apparently transferred to them in the afterlife through shamanistic rituals.

In the often harsh environment of Tibet, such practices are believed to give people a measure of control over their unpredictable and sometimes hazardous surroundings. With the almost total triumph of Buddhism in Tibet, the folk religion became infused with Buddhist elements and practices, but it still remains distinct in the minds of the people, mainly because its focus is on pragmatic mundane benefits, and not on final liberation or the benefit of others. By all accounts, Tibetans have always been fascinated by magical and occult practices, and from the earliest times have viewed their country as the abode of countless supernatural forces whose actions have direct bearing on their lives. Since Buddhist teachers tend to focus on supramundane goals, Tibetans naturally seek the services of local shamans, whose function is to make contact with spirits, to predict their influences on people's lives, and to perform rituals that either overcome harmful influences or enlist their help.

When Buddhism entered Tibet, it did not attempt to suppress belief in the indigenous forces. Rather, it incorporated them into its worldview, making them protectors of the dharma who were converted by tantric adepts like Padmasambhava, and who now watch over Buddhism and fight against its enemies. An example is Tangla, a god associated with the Tangla mountains, who was convinced to become a Buddhist by Padmasambhava and now is thought to guard his area against forces inimical to the dharma. The most powerful deities are often considered to be manifestations of buddhas, bodhisattvas, Oikinis, etc., but the mundane forces are thought to be merely worldly powers, who have demonic natures that have been suppressed by Buddhism. Although their conversion has ameliorated the worst of their fierceness, they are still demons who must be kept in check by shamanistic rituals and the efforts of Buddhist adepts. Nor should it be thought that Buddhist practitioners are free from the influences of the folk religion. These beliefs and practices are prevalent in all levels of Tibetan society, and it is common to see learned scholar-lamas, masters of empirically-based dialectics and thoroughly practical in daily affairs, refuse to travel at certain times in order to avoid dangerous spirits or decide their travel schedules after first performing divination to determine the most auspicious time. Such attitudes may be dismissed as "irrational" by Westerners, but for Tibetans they are entirely pragmatic responses to a world populated by forces that are potentially harmful."


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...f_yHKusgdw

(07-06-2014 07:11 PM)pix Wrote:  O.K. the "magic" if you want to call it that is the cultivation of the cosmic power within and attained mainly through meditation...it's far removed from witchcraft or sorcery.
http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhism...atural.htm
You may want to check this one out? they do not endorse the use of spells.

I've already read that, but thank you.
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07-07-2014, 09:45 AM
Post: #26
RE: What's the difference between Paganism, Wicca & Witchcraft?
I don't disagree that Buddhists use ritual in helping the dead pass into the after life which they (nor I) don't class as witchcraft and there are Buddhists adepts who have the ability to use the cosmic energy and do. Yes to incorporate their philosophy into other regions they often have to incorporate some of the indigenous belief systems (rather like the Romans who incorporated their own and other pagan beliefs into Christianity). What they are against is the Black magic and sorcery which they in no way endorse. Maybe we are at cross purposes as to the definition of witchcraft which can be either black or white plus shades in-between. They do use herbal medicines too which if successful would be seen in some parts of the underdeveloped world as witchcraft.
You are as aware as I that the doctrine of all religions may not be followed by all practitioners for various reasons, i.e social, practical, regional etc.. those who purport to follow any religion seldom do to the letter unless they are the truly devout.
Again we come back to taking from all philosophies what is right for the seeker.

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07-07-2014, 10:08 AM (This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 10:11 AM by ChaosRose.)
Post: #27
RE: What's the difference between Paganism, Wicca & Witchcraft?
I'd have to agree that it's up to the seeker. That said, it doesn't always stand to reason that because one person sees a conflict, that others also do. Buddhism is being practiced alongside indigenous practices, which include the use of folk magic for mundane purposes. It is this way for millions, if not billions of people. So to say that the two are not compatible is not really accurate.

Certainly, many of the indigenous practices, which include animal sacrifice, divination, warding off or enlisting the help of harmful spirits...these are certainly viewed as sorcery or black magic by many. At the very least, these are folk magic practices, sometimes for higher purposes, sometimes for lower purposes.

Not all Hoodoo is black magic, either, but to say that it's free from baneful magic is not accurate. There are many who would view even the use of divination of any sort to be sorcery. We can certainly see that divination is in use, even by well-educated lamas.
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07-07-2014, 10:58 AM (This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 11:01 AM by pix.)
Post: #28
RE: What's the difference between Paganism, Wicca & Witchcraft?
What I said is that Buddhism and the use of witchcraft/sorcery (as in the black magic type) isn't endorsed (see the link). Nothing in any religion or philosophy is totally cut and dried, black or white nor are people or the practitioners! Again we come to the aspect that everyone has different definitions so where do you go from there, yours are different to mine etc, etc? you can only go by what you feel is right as the seeker.
I personally don't see divination as a dark practice and yes Llama's happily practice it too, have done for centuries, they cultivate the mystical powers of the cosmos but not for dark purposes, again it's personal perspectives.
As far as I'm concerned this is just going in circles and it's down to the seeker to make their own choices whatever they may be.
I really don't think there is anymore to be gained by continuing this particular aspect of the thread. It has devolved in a non productive way for the original poster (and boring) and I'm bemused as to why this was all necessary!
Perhaps letting others also have some input may be more beneficial.

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07-07-2014, 12:32 PM (This post was last modified: 07-07-2014 12:38 PM by ChaosRose.)
Post: #29
RE: What's the difference between Paganism, Wicca & Witchcraft?
I don't think there's anything stopping others from participating.

If it's all so boring and circular and off-topic, then why have you continued to participate...over 2 days? You can always just quit responding to me, ya know.
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07-07-2014, 03:16 PM
Post: #30
RE: What's the difference between Paganism, Wicca & Witchcraft?
It got boring, nitpicky and circular that's why I've stopped, so enough's enough.

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