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EVP is not evidence of ghosts
#1
First we had orbs but it seems EVP has replaced the orb as the new claimed proof, but is it?
http://www.paranormalpeopleonline.com/el...of-ghosts/

The reason I posted this is so many people post evp's as evidence. The methods used are just plain wrong. I see people doing evp sessions and claiming to catch lots of spirits in a crowded mall. See a problem? I am seeing investigators make claims while walk across a parking lots getting evp's, now if you have ever listened live you will discover the amount of noise out there. I have seen teams with 20 people in a room doing a seance claim to capture evp. The problem is people want to THINK they are talking to the other side.
Belief bias occurs when we make illogical conclusions in order to confirm our preexisting beliefs. Belief perseverance refers to our tendency to maintain a belief even after the evidence we used to form the belief is contradicted.
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#2
(09-03-2013, 05:54 AM)UglyNRude Wrote: First we had orbs but it seems EVP has replaced the orb as the new claimed proof, but is it?

Have you ever heard of or would you except the possibility of a spirit
voice if done under controlled conditions?
I agree that as with orbs to many people are just ready to accept anything as evidence , but I've heard some evps that were presented by former members of this site that I thought were quite convincing compared to most of the stuff that's out there.
I've often thought that much of what folks pick up can be compared more to a similarity of a radio 'skip' than a supernatural cause.


[quote='lightkeeper' pid='143691' dateline='1378235011']
[quote='UglyNRude' pid='143679' dateline='1378205692']
First we had orbs but it seems EVP has replaced the orb as the new claimed proof, but is it?

Have you ever heard of or would you except the possibility of a spirit
voice if done under controlled conditions?
I agree that as with orbs to many people are just ready to accept anything as evidence , but I've heard some evps that were presented by former members of this site that I thought were quite convincing compared to most of the stuff that's out there.
I've often thought that much of what folks pick up can be compared more to a similarity of a radio 'skip' than a supernatural cause.


(09-03-2013, 02:03 PM)lightkeeper Wrote: [quote='UglyNRude' pid='143679' dateline='1378205692']
First we had orbs but it seems EVP has replaced the orb as the new claimed proof, but is it?

Have you ever heard of or would you except the possibility of a spirit
voice if done under controlled conditions?
I agree that as with orbs to many people are just ready to accept anything as evidence , but I've heard some evps that were presented by former members of this site that I thought were quite convincing compared to most of the stuff that's out there.
I've often thought that much of what folks pick up can be compared more to a similarity of a radio 'skip' than a supernatural cause.


[quote='UglyNRude' pid='143679' dateline='1378205692']
First we had orbs but it seems EVP has replaced the orb as the new claimed proof, but is it?
http://www.paranormalpeopleonline.com/el...of-ghosts/

The reason I posted this is so many people post evp's as evidence. The methods used are just plain wrong. I see people doing evp sessions and claiming to catch lots of spirits in a crowded mall. See a problem? I am seeing investigators make claims while walk across a parking lots getting evp's, now if you have ever listened live you will discover the amount of noise out there. I have seen teams with 20 people in a room doing a seance claim to capture evp. The problem is people want to THINK they are talking to the other side.


Do you think there is a possibility of any EVPS being valid if done under the right conditions?
Like orbs, most of this stuff is not what folks want to believe it is. But, I once heard some EVPS that were presented by former members of this forum that I felt were quite convincing basing my opinion on believing that the presenters were sincere & skeptical.
I for the most part think that most voices that can't be readily debunked are a phenomenon much like the 'skips' that can be picked up by shortwave radios.
(09-03-2013, 05:54 AM)UglyNRude Wrote: First we had orbs but it seems EVP has replaced the orb as the new claimed proof, but is it?
http://www.paranormalpeopleonline.com/el...of-ghosts/

The reason I posted this is so many people post evp's as evidence. The methods used are just plain wrong. I see people doing evp sessions and claiming to catch lots of spirits in a crowded mall. See a problem? I am seeing investigators make claims while walk across a parking lots getting evp's, now if you have ever listened live you will discover the amount of noise out there. I have seen teams with 20 people in a room doing a seance claim to capture evp. The problem is people want to THINK they are talking to the other side.


(09-03-2013, 05:54 AM)UglyNRude Wrote: First we had orbs but it seems EVP has replaced the orb as the new claimed proof, but is it?
http://www.paranormalpeopleonline.com/el...of-ghosts/

The reason I posted this is so many people post evp's as evidence. The methods used are just plain wrong. I see people doing evp sessions and claiming to catch lots of spirits in a crowded mall. See a problem? I am seeing investigators make claims while walk across a parking lots getting evp's, now if you have ever listened live you will discover the amount of noise out there. I have seen teams with 20 people in a room doing a seance claim to capture evp. The problem is people want to THINK they are talking to the other side.


Do you think it possible that some evps could be valid if done under the right controls ?
I've heard some from former members of this forum that could be valid based on my opinion of the presenters.
As with orbs many are to ready to believe any anomaly is spirit related.
I've always felt that most evps not created by back round noise could be similar to the 'skips' that sometimes occur in radio transmissions.
Do you think it possible that evps could be believed if done under the right controlled conditions?

I'v always thought that most evps that are not back round noise are similar the 'skips' that sometimes occur in radio transmissions.
Do you think it possible that some evps could be valid if done under the right controlled conditions?
I've often thought that most evps that are not back round noise could be similar to the 'skips' that sometimes occur in radio transmissions.
The only wrong questions - are those that go unasked
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#3
Do you think it possible that some evps could be valid if done under the right controlled conditions?
I've often thought that most evps that are not back round noise might be similar to the 'skips' that sometimes occur in radio transmissions.
The only wrong questions - are those that go unasked
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#4
The problem with so many, like UNR said, is many are too quick to grab on to anything that sounds like it could be a voice. There are methods to be used such as videotaping the EVP session from different angles to rule out any other possibilities. Documenting where each team member is..I remember at an investigation, there was something that came through sounding very much like an audible voice. It was...from a person downstairs. It had come through the vents.

I'm not going to say it is impossible..but it is very very difficult to get the kind of settings that would eliminate everything else. And far too many teams are listening for something to be paranormal. And just as with looking at a cloud or a random image that looks like a face..our brains can create audio pareidolia too.
“Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” ~Philip K. Dick

http://paranormalinreview2.zohosites.com/home.html

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#5
Surprisingly anomalous audio captures have been documented since 1959 when Friedrich Jürgenson made the discovery using a reel to reel audio recorder. Some pioneers went to great lengths to control their environment and used high quality devices to capture these oddities.

A perfect example would be In 1971, when Raudive's book "Breakthrough: An Amazing Experiment in Electronic Communication with the Dead" was published in England. He was invited to participate in a controlled experiment validating the phenenoma at Pye Records Limited by the publishers.

With special equipment installed blocking out radio and television signals, essentially a Faraday cage, Raudive was only allowed to speak into a microphone for a duration of 18 minutes while being monitored by a team of scientists. No voices were heard during the recording but once the recording was played back, much to the monitoring teams amazement, over two hundred voices were heard. Observers acknowledged the validity of EVP since some voices addressed Raudive by his nickname, "Kosti" or "Koste", and even his deceased sister said her name three times "Tekle". The phenomena was referred to after as"Raudive Voices" by many who followed his research and methodology.

Unfortunately, today, inexpensive audio recorders are used without any controls preventing the majority of research to remain at a standstill.

There is another facet of anomalous recordings many skeptics do not even acknowledge. AVP (aural voice phenomena) are live captures that are heard at the time of the recording and are not just audio glitches. One of the most compelling examples of unexplained voices from my own research came inside my own house where a woman called out my first and lastname at 3:15am. I was monitoring at the time and I can assure you, I was the only one in my house. I was at first stunned when I heard the voice and discovered the proof was in fact on my recorder. This wasn't from a stray audio source in my opinion. A local radio station wasn't requested to call out my first and last name at 3:15 am.

Lastly, anomalous audio contains a fingerprint that differs from a human voice. They exhibit flat vocal banding and fall below the 300 hz range. Humans are vastly different showing a variance in frequency. This can be easily seen if the capture is strong enough in Adobe Audition's Spectral Frequency Display.

There are many suggested explanations in origin. Friedrich Jürgenson, Konstantin Raudive and Sarah Estep said it could come from Outer Space, imprints from the living and the dead. If you're willing to be patient, understand your equipment, administer controls you will eventually get a legitimate capture. I remain a discerning investigator and recognize these captures are possible.
[Image: 2pzabo5.jpg]
"Men who have excessive faith in their theories and ideas are not only ill
prepared in making discoveries; they also make poor observations."
---Claude Bernard---
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#6
Ok lets first look at Raudive
http://www.skepdic.com/raudive.html
Belief bias occurs when we make illogical conclusions in order to confirm our preexisting beliefs. Belief perseverance refers to our tendency to maintain a belief even after the evidence we used to form the belief is contradicted.
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#7
(09-03-2013, 07:35 PM)UglyNRude Wrote: Ok lets first look at Raudive
http://www.skepdic.com/raudive.html

It's important to investigate the phenomena yourself and not merely rely on a skeptics standpoint. Personally I don't know what these oddities are but I do know from my own research the snippets do exist.
[Image: 2pzabo5.jpg]
"Men who have excessive faith in their theories and ideas are not only ill
prepared in making discoveries; they also make poor observations."
---Claude Bernard---
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#8
(09-03-2013, 07:41 PM)EVP Wrote:
(09-03-2013, 07:35 PM)UglyNRude Wrote: Ok lets first look at Raudive
http://www.skepdic.com/raudive.html

It's important to investigate the phenomena yourself and not merely rely on a skeptics standpoint.

Lets see a skeptic demands facts so your against that? The problem is how can you even use a person who thinks he hears voices without equipment as your proof when the person is obviously a believer who will find what he intends to find.

Belief bias occurs when we make illogical conclusions in order to confirm our preexisting beliefs. Belief perseverance refers to our tendency to maintain a belief even after the evidence we used to form the belief is contradicted.
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#9
Your entitled to your opinion but remember I said I was discerning. Skeptics are as close minded as believers. I rely on my investigation to draw conclusions from the unexplained, and that's what it is unexplained.
[Image: 2pzabo5.jpg]
"Men who have excessive faith in their theories and ideas are not only ill
prepared in making discoveries; they also make poor observations."
---Claude Bernard---
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#10
Once again a cynic is the opposite of a believer, a skeptic is open to proof and relies on facts not pseudoscience.
Belief bias occurs when we make illogical conclusions in order to confirm our preexisting beliefs. Belief perseverance refers to our tendency to maintain a belief even after the evidence we used to form the belief is contradicted.
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